23 year old has assisted suicide in Switzerland

[Evenstar]

Here news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/7676812.stm

This is terribly sad, I wonder how much help and support this family were given in the wake of their son's accident.

Do you all define your lives in one way?

I feel very alive in the midst of hills, I would hate not to be able to walk to the middle of Dartmoor. But I also feelalive listening to certain music, or looking at a certain view. Ultimately the things that make me feel most alive are quite simple.

I was rather shocked that it took me seeing ds1 enjoy something that I enjoyed equally to see equal value in his life. I couldn't see that the joy he gets from a set of stairs is equal to the joy available to my other children playing an instrument or something.

This man was able bodied, and probably defined a lot of his life in terms of rugby playing, being part of a team etc. I'm not surprised he felt his life was over. However, I think its sad that he was officially helped to end his life, that it was made easy for him, before he had any time to move past his devastating injury and to discover that there is equal value in a disabled life (and ime not many people understand that- they assume that anyone would replace/remove the disability if they could).

How would people feel if it was this easy for someone to end their life because they'd lost all their money so could not longer own a boat and go sailing whenever they wanted?

It is sad, but less sad becasue his misery and personal saddness has been ended. When ablebodied people become diabled the first thing they often feel is that they have lost control of their lives. Perhaps him doimng this was his way of gaining back that control - in some way.

I don't see it as sad that he was listened to and allowed, after so much suffering, to do what he wanted. You don;t know how muchg help he hwas given to try to move past his injury. He obvioulsy wasn;t interested in moving past it. How hellish would it be to be living like that and have no one around you, people who claim to care for you, blatently ignoring you and refusing to listen to you. That sounds truly horrific.

There may be equal value in a disabled persons life, but their opinions are not equal.

People who are backkru[ted do kill themselves - and don;t have to go to Swizerland to do so, they just do it - so it is easier..not sure what your point was there anyway sorry

options not opinions

I don't really think you can compare losing your physical independence with no longer owning a boat.

I am suprised he obtained the necassary psychiatrict report that dignitas requires. They claim to only help in 'incurable' mental illness.

I hope that assisted suicide is never legalised in this country.

His life, his choice and not his first attempt but his final dignified successful attempt.

Each to their own, as my mum lost freedom and ability with cancer she felt it was incrediably unfair she was unable to decide her own end, she likened it to our pets, we had a lawful responsibilty to ensure our pets don't suffer but she didn't have that right

I don't agree that killing oneself is 'brave'.
I think it is tragic that this is going to continue the myth that the life of a disabled person is 'second class'.
Working in a hospital that houses a Spinal Injuries Unit, I heard one of their consultant explain that at some point, they expect their patients to become suicidal, this a normal response to such a devastating injury.
To assist a person in this act only a year after their injury is criminal.

I think it's downright patronising to assume that people should be forced to make their own end in an undignified manner or alone without their loved ones and friends around because society somehow deems it knows what is best for them in every single instance.

"I don't really think you can compare losing your physical independence with no longer owning a boat." Why not? If you were extremely wealthy and lost all that money overnight I think it could well feel like suddenly becoming disabled. Imagine having it all and then losing it, home, possessions, job, everything overnight? I could well imagine that to be a factor that might drive some to suicide.

Me and dh were just talking about this, and he was saying that apparently there are moves to change the law in Switzerland next year, that assisted suicide will only be allowed for people with terminal illness, and then only for Swiss nationals, as they don't like all this suicide tourism.

Actually I think jimjams has made a very valid point. People do kill themselves on a regular basis because of things like losing their livelihood, or their ability to do something they consider a vital part of their existence. They aren't stopped from doing so because in the most part it is not possible to stop someone jumping under a train, or eating huge amounts of painkillers, or gassing themselves, or (where guns are available) shooting themselves. People killing themselves is not that unusual, and most of them are not depressed in a clinical sense. Many of them have never been known to the medical authorities (at least on a mental health basis), and when their cases are reviewed (all unexpected deaths are reviewed) there are no danger signs.

If I decided tomorrow that I was going to kill myself it is a decision I could taken and execute on my own (not that I'm going to). For this chap, there was nothing he could do on his own, and likely never would again. He was only 23, and had to some extent very limited life experience, as his whole life seems to have been centered on sport, and very physical intense sport at that. I can quite see why he probably felt his life wasn't worth living (I am not for a moment saying it was) but his only option (from reports) would have been to refuse to eat and starve himself to death. I think that if in the face of everything I could possibly do a friend or relative of mine said that's what they planned to do I might consider the route this family took.

You honestly think that losing your physical independence to the point where you can't use the toilet is in any way comparable to not losing a boat or any other material object??

This is one of the most tragic stories I've ever heard.

The poor fellow was paralysed, incontinent and, worse still, apparently in constant pain. Why should people demand that he should be brave, or accepting, when his life was, for him, a miserable torture? His parents knew him - obviously they didn't rush to the clinic prematurely. There was clearly no hope of improvement in his physical condition.

I think the person who contacted the police and drew this sad case to public/media attention is quite evil.

A dragon - for some people yes. I am also saying that given time many people with even the most awful disabilities come to realise that a disabled life can be every bit as valuable and exciting and live able as a non-disabled life.

But (like someone losing their boat if sailing was the be all and end all in their life) or girlfriend or whatever, you don't get there and find that out overnight.

The difference is that someone like the mythical sailing millionaire would have people around him reminding him that he had lots of live for. Where faced with a massive spinal injury everyone seems to says 'oh gosh no how dreadful, your life can never be any bit as good as if you had remained able bodied'. Look at this thread! Everyone agreeing that his life could never be as good as it once had been. That's untrue - it certainly had the potential and possibility to be. I have met people who live their lives happily with terrible acquired disabilities. I think most of them took more than a year to get to that stage of happiness & acceptance.

Nooka - that is a good point (about relying on others to do the deed) but I still think one year later was not the time to be supporting this decision. I don't think it would be possible for even the world's greatest optimist to be in anything other than shock this short a time after such a dreadful accident. And that's not the time to make these sorts of decisions. You haven't even given yourself time to explore all the options, to try different things. The family would of course have still been in as much shock as the man himself.

My greatest worry about this specific case, is that he went to Switzerland so soon after the accident.

I can well imagine that having this sort of injury would be utterly overwhelming at first, but many people do re-build rewarding lives after this sort of injury.

I once worked with a man who was a quadriplegic, he drove and adapted van (he had very limited movement in one arm). He was a head of a unit for a pharmaceutical company. Granted he may not have been living the life he 'planned' for himself prior to his accident, but he had a good quality of life.

I agree that the time was very short. But then when you are young (23 seems very young to me now I am approaching 40 ) a year probably seems like a lifetime, and if you are in pain doubly so. We have no idea what those around him were saying, but it seems unlikely that they were all saying "go on kill yourself". In the same way who is to say that the millionaire a)has any friends, and b)is surrounded by optimism. In fact I imagine that there will be a good many suicides of millionaires, or the very rich in the next period of time.

I am not saying that this young man's decision was right. I suspect it was as right or wrong as any other suicide. One thing is true, fircone is completely right. How can it possibly help anyone to have publicity drawn to this poor family?

I know that I should be sympathetic to parents. But I think that to let him do this that soon after the accident is wrong. They obviously can't accept his disability. I've just come back from hospital where my sister is dying. 8 years ago she had spinal cord damage, and she built a life for herself. She still wants to live now, but it doesn't look good. My parents who are shattered from being full time carers for the last few months are still desperate for her to live as well.

publicity was drawn cos it was assisted.

I'll be asking my coleagues in the Spinal injuries Unit on Monday how this story has affected morale amongst the patients.

FFS Jeee, he did it. They couldn't have stopped him. I'm sure they wouldn't want any kind of grudging sympathy.

This place is nuts

They might not be asking for sympathy but perhaps Jee and her parents and sister deserve a little. Go easy.

Sorry to hear that jeee.

What they did was a true act of love imho.When i was on dialysis if I had had to accept that as my life with no hope of a transplant I hope someone would have helped me.It is horrendous to live half a life day in day out with no hope and the grief for your previous 'healthy' life is virtually impossible to cope with.

It's a very difficult topic for many people but no-one can know how he felt and I doubt that he wasn't receiving support from the SI clinic he stayed in to help him adjust to the life he would lead in the future.
For some people such a physical trauma is met with strength and determination, for others it literally is the end of their lives as they knew it, all hopes of what they thought their lives would be are gone.

I don't personally think he made a decision too early at all. After treatment he was advised that he wouldn't have more function than he currently had. He will have known what that was to mean for him. He could die with help and not 'suffer' any longer or he could live for another 50 years potentially.
The question of second rate life is his personal one, he didn't wish to live like that, his choice.

I don't think it is for anyone to judge when/where anyone takes their own life. People grieve whether it's a natural death or not and I for one would assist a family member to do this if that is what they truly wanted.
At least they got to say goodbye and be with him at the end, rather than finding him dead and alone, not knowing whether he suffered anymore than he needed to.

If he could've taken is own life here without help then what's the difference between enabling him to do so when he physically cannot manage it. It is surely a greater cruelty to deny him assistance that he desperately wants for our own selfish reasons of missing someone.