23 year old has assisted suicide in Switzerland

[Evenstar]

Here news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/7676812.stm

This is terribly sad, I wonder how much help and support this family were given in the wake of their son's accident.

No, looked it up, I was wrong. He COULD propel his own wheelchair by a sip and puff device.

fascinating about how sip and puff and headrest sensors mean even quadraplegics can move independently

one day we hope to get a sip and puff wheelchair for dd. She has full body quadraplegia but has some miniumum head control.

I'm not saying that giving it time will automatically lead to someone not being suicidal. Of course it wont necessarily. But I think that doing it for someone when they're in the early stages of a grief process, when the likelihood is they would have reached 'acceptance' - is utterly wrong. Of course if they were physically able they might have done it themselves. But if someone else is doing it it has to be more robust because if you have other people invested in the end then it becomes harder to step off that process/conveyor. And the final moments aren't your choice they're someone acting on your instructions of a few moments ago - you don't get the option of a last second change of mind.

And lets face it you are around people who are agreeing that your life isn't worth living. I don't say that in a loaded judgmental way -if you felt that someone's life was worth living I think it would be incredibly hard (impossible?) to sit back and watch them make what you saw (rightly or wrongly) as a mistake and to be involved in the process. But other people become part of the process, or the journey and and they have to agree with what you are doing or they couldn't be there. Nothing wrong with that - but just another reason that it has to be completely robust.

I say 'the likelihood is they would have reached acceptance' because that is the usual outcome. If you listen to people who have been through the process, then they know the early feelings of despair and the complicated process you need to pass through. The clinic surely has a duty to make sure that its clients are making an informed choice. Can you make an informed choice in the early stage of a grief process?

Cathpot - I don't disagree with anything you say. And pain control is another underfunded area that obviously could make a huge difference to every day life.

It is so difficult to be objective. Maybe what I am saying is my line in the sand is pain. I never want to be trapped in pain and I dont want to have to watch people I love trapped in pain.

And it's equipment like the sip and puff wheelchairs that of course makes a massive difference to people. So so expensive though. It's the usual we can afford to spend billions on war or something equally destructive, but people usually rely on charities for these hugely expensive items of equipment. It doesn't make a difficult situation any easier.

This is the charity I'm raising money for by swimming Decent equipment and support makes a huge difference. NHS wheelchair services are usually an utter shambles.

how odd that people just cannot accept that this family were greiving, and the clinic were wrong to let him die so soon after the accident.

grieving takes years for the family of a disabled person too.

Wheelchjair services are awful. My friends sister is very ill and the wheelchaiors the NHS provide are usually completely inappropriate. Luckily her parents have enough money to pay for suitable wheelchairs, not many people have parents like that There is a lady at ds1s school who I can think of now who has a completely inappropriate wheelchair and it makes her life SO much more difficult

2shoes, one could just as easily say how odd that people just can not accept that it was this man's choice to end his own life.

Both opinions are valid.

just had wheelchair services round myself with a manual chair I cant use and a bunch of leaflets telling me to go find charities to fund a decent wheelchair.

"And the final moments aren't your choice they're someone acting on your instructions of a few moments ago" But that's where you're wrong. This man would have used his head movement to take a sip from the cup that someone was holding. No one administered the drug as far as I am aware, they held a cup for him and let him make the choice to drink. He could have not drunk it.

A post here about rehab UK style. Seems even worse than wheelchair 'services'. First post from someone who was at the same place.

If you read the thread from the beginning - and it's worth it- it challenges opinions for those of us without disabilities- you get a lot of discussion about the negativity of the medics (and believe me I've been at the receiving end of that. Any positive hope must be extinguished pre you're 'in denial').

The people on this thread are so much closer to it than us, but seem to have picked up on the same issues (neither are they in agreement).

that is shocking.

thats shockingly awful. As the rehab for cerebral palsy is completely non-existant I had assumed spinal injuries were better catered for cos those people can talk and complain.
Thats enough to drive anyone into despiar and suicide and is inhuman and disgusting.

I'm always amazed walking is seen as a big deal. Its the first question most parents ask when told their child has CP/spinal injury etc. To me walking comes way after thinking, speech and hand function.

oh ffs. This quote out of the Tiomes
'I don't comment on the law. but my biggest respect to the rugby player for his courage and decision. I do not blame it. From being an active man to become paraplegic form chest down is the worst thing could never happen. Better die than living like a lettuce.'

marco, London,

FFS.

Stupid, horrible quote. NMC, I think in this particular case I don't think walking is seen as a really big deal, well not nearly as much as the fact that he had no arm or hand function or upper body control, which is the thing that really makes someone helpless. As long as I wasn't in constant pain I cannot ever imagine wanting to die if I lost the use of my legs. It would frustrating and depressing for me, I'm sure. But full body paralysis? When I have years of experience of being independent and active? I'm not sure I would want to live.
I find the references to the family's feelings slightly irrelevant, as Dan was an independent adult. No matter how fully they accepted his disability, what matters is whether HE accepted it.

my dd has full body paralysis....

NMC i know ife we had a £ for every time someone asked "will she walk" we would be able to buy the trike.

talking now that is my thing. I want to talk to her.

yeah. if dd could talk i'd be happy. thats the biggie.

'my dd has full body paralysis.... '

but that doesn't mean someone else who also has it will feel the same way your daughter does about it, NMC.

that's all people are trying to say.

we don't know this particular family. we don't know if they were still grieving or if they were past that. there's no schedule or timeline for these types of things.

he was an ADULT who made a decision about his own life.

Marco clearly has fewer braincells than the lettuce he uses as a description.

just pointing out to ND's that full body paralysis isnt the end of the world.