Work for dole

[ReallyTired]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7514513.stm

I think that proposals like these are long over due. Although I think that if you make people work full time for their benefits they won't have time to look for job.

Prehaps they should work three days a week and look for a job two days a week.

There are people who for good reasons cannot work full time, but certainly could do something part time.

yes get them to work for it - loads of layabouts here

"Why punish the genuine for the very very small percentage that are like this. "

Why is making someone work for their money a punishement? A huge number of the working poor work very hard for a pitance.

The concept of doing something useful to earn your living is an alien concept to some long term unemployed. If it wasn't they would be glad to give something back to the communities. There are some people who think the rest of us owe them a living for doing jacksh!t.

These schemes aren't about making carers or disabled people work in chain gangs. Its tackling long term unemployment of able bodied people who don't have heavy caring responsibilites or any other excuse.

The issue of Incapacity Benefit is another issue. Its up to the professionalism of doctor to make that kind of judgement about an individual.

it's not about people who are on JSA.

it's about people on incapacity benefit.

incapacitybenefit

a lot of disabled people get IC.

so there's teh whole grey area of leaving it up to the government to determine what is 'severely disabled', particularly, as the article points out, the 40% of claimaints who receive IC for mental health problems.

It was routine in the early nineties for those on long term unemployment to be shifted on to the sick to reduce the unemployment stats. Many of them have stayed on Incapacity benefits ever since.

nobody is saying that all people who claim benefits are 'scroungers'

Its not that hard to falsely claim IB, really it isnt. And making yourself unemployable on JSA is pretty easy too.

There are alot of people on benefits who could work but don't through choice. This issue needs to be tackled by the government its not but punishing thse who genuinely need to recieve help

There have been changes in IC since the early 90's - there was a fuss about it when they withdrew disabled persons benifit and left them without money to live, this is when the genuine clamis will be punished because they will lose their benifits and be incapable of getting work. It then also puts them and thir carers in really stressful positions.

Where are these lots of people - how many? is lots? Please set out what is a lot of people please.

Expat tat article does NOT say people on IB are going to be forced to work, that is the proposals for JSA claimants only.

This is what is happening with IB which is now going to be called ESA instead.

I didn't say the article DID say it was about people on IB or JSA.

I mentioned a) that other papers mentioned IB reform b) in an earlier post, that is was NOT about JSA but about people on incapacity benefit.

I'll be happy to quote my own earlier posts.

here's me from earlier:
'By expatinscotland on Sat 19-Jul-08 22:21:57
IIRC, there have been recent papers about revamping IB as well, diva.'

and even more recently:
'By expatinscotland on Sat 19-Jul-08 22:32:22
it's not about people who are on JSA.

it's about people on incapacity benefit.

incapacitybenefit'

please read people's posts before addressing them personally.

I don't call this an insignificant figure. Ie, 18% of 16 to 17 year olds are neets.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7515042.stm

I wonder what percentage of 18 year olds or over are neets?

Again, this leaked paper is about people who are long-term unemployed on incapacity benefit, not JSA.

The goverment figure was under half the bbc figure of 18% - which figure is right?

Watch Panorama "Britain on the sick"

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7409927.stm

You can watch it from this link. Of course not all IB claimants are dishonest. The people in this film truely believe that they are incapitiated, even if doctors disagree.

The typical senario is that someone is truely suffering with medical depression. They legitmately claim IB. The problem is that they stay on IB for the next 10 years, even when they are not as ill as they were.

Figures I have seen are that between 20-30% of IB claimants are probably capable of some work.

I don't understand why some people are getting so defensive about this, if you genuinely ne to be on benefit thnere will be no change but there is now going to be alot more to help those who can and do want to return to employment.

I'm on 'the dole', well, LPA. If I have to work for it, who will look after my children? Just wondering? Will I have to go and look after somebody else's children maybe? And somebody else on the dole can come and look after my children

the thing i worry about is who is going to determine what constitutes 'genuinely need to be on benefit'.

and what sort of 'work' the people will need to do.

and what this means in terms of how it affects the working poor, as pointed out by some others in terms of how companies may use this as free labour.

Expat you posted a link called 'incapacity benefit'

I said the article in that link wasn't about forcing those on IB to work.

Long term Unemployed and those on incapacity benefit are 2 different and separate client groups.

Read the article again and this should become clear to you.

I named the link incapcity benefit, fiodyl, because that's what hte article pertaining to the leaked paper was about!

it's about extending plans aimed at young people who are out of school at work to people who have been on incapacity benefit, 'work for dole' and reassessment of all existing IC recipients.

I READ THE ARTICLE. That's why I posted it on here.

I never wrote that it was about people on IB.

I quoted myself mentioning to another poster that IIRC similar papers were directed at those on IB. In fact, there were a few heated threads about this when they came out.

Is that clear to you?

Because I don't know how to make it any clearer, tbh.

FGS NOBODY IS BEING FORCED TO WORK

It was just a proposal, not legislation!

If it did go through then alot more input would be needed regarding childcare provision but it is very unlikely it would apply to those with pre-scool age kids anyway unless through personal choice.

Why are people on here twisting this article to try and frighten others about something that HAS NOT HAPPENED

because it's a discussion about the proposals, about why people stay on benefits, about the root causes of poverty and what should be done about this before the government goes around making still MORE short-sighted proposals.

are we not allowed to discuss what may or may not happen?

OK I think it is clear to me now-

You named a link 'inacapacity benefit' when it was not about incapacity benefit

You never said the link you named 'incapacity benefit' was about incapacity benefit

Thank you so much, I dont know how I managed to work with welfare benefit legislation for 10 years, without you to explain everything to me.

I'm shocked by some of the figures on here
I want to move to Belgium (well a little bit)
What's LPA?
Agree with GreenElizabeth you can then get the silly situation you describe and it is somehow seen as 'better'

If we really do get a big global recession they will probably bring back some of those work for food programmes (they will have to when they cut benefts) like the ones that built all sorts of stuff, the Great Ocean Road in OZ is one and I think there are more in the States didn't they have something to do with WW1 too?
(I know I'm a bit off track I'm getting a bit concerned about all this economic doom and gloom)

You can discus what you like but I don't think its fair to represent it in a way that could lead others to believe it is actually about to happen when it is not.

Is that to me? I did say if I guess I'll butt out

Oh, please, fiodyl.

No one is doing that and you know it.