Work for dole

[ReallyTired]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7514513.stm

I think that proposals like these are long over due. Although I think that if you make people work full time for their benefits they won't have time to look for job.

Prehaps they should work three days a week and look for a job two days a week.

There are people who for good reasons cannot work full time, but certainly could do something part time.

[findtheriver]

I agree CoteDAzur.
It seems impossible to present this pov without being flamed by individuals who are desperately trying to get off benefits and into work. Yes, of course there are plenty of genuine claimants, but it doesnt alter the fact that some people use benefits as a lifestyle choice. I'm sure we all know people who could look for work but choose not to. Just among the people living near me, there are a few lone mothers with kids at school all day who do NO work and are on benefits. I also know of a few couples where neither parent works. Yet the local job centre does have job vacancies. There are all kinds of reasons why people may choose to do this - probably the main one being that minimum wage jobs don't provide a standard of living significantly above living on benefits, which of course they should do. The expectation should be that every adult who is able to should live independently of the state. Why should some people be expected to work their arses off to enable other people the choice of not working? Makes no sense at all.
I have no problem with people being expected to carry out tasks while on benefits - apart from anything else it does provide structure to the day and helps people get back into the mindset of working alongside other people. People can become totally deskilled when they are long term unemployed.
And before I get flamed - no, I repeat, I am not talking about genuine claimants who are actually unable to work. I am talking about those who choose not to.

[TwoIfBySea]

"Just that we have all been faced with the same choices of fun vs money and make babies with teenage lover vs study for a degree."

Sorry I didn't do either of those - I was too busy working at the time!

[TwoIfBySea]

Loriycs, there are those of us who already do that - which is what I totally agree with. If you are not working, you should volunteer, not just for the community and to help others but for what it gives yourself. Perhaps had the government been actually thinking about this properly they would have done something to address the fact there is a huge shortage of volunteers.

And although I fit in to the first line of your comment I hope you don't think I am flaming your pov! Actually I realise how many people never work, have never worked and never want to work. I don't quite understand that mentality but there is a section of society who have everything in place that should enable them to get a fairly good job but they don't want to do it for x, y, z. I helped out at a training centre trying to get teens into work - they all wanted highly paid, 9 to 5 jobs. They didn't want shifts or to have to put any effort in. It was very discouraging to see them, I did tell them they should be thankful they weren't having to do YTS jobs. Now they really were awful!

[Twinklemegan]

My understanding was that it isn't possible to volunteer whilst on benefits because your benefits get cut. Has that changed? I always thought it was madness because it prevented people from getting work experience that could help them get a job. A classic example of what I was talking about earlier.

[Twinklemegan]

I don't disagree with a lot of what's being said here. But I do have difficulty with the assumption that because there are job vacancies out there, if you don't have a job it's because you don't want one. Having been married to my DH for 9 years I know categorically that this is not true. I said it all earlier, but really employers do discriminate very unfairly against many people going for jobs, and I genuinely think they need a kick up the backside before we stick the boot into the JSA claimants themselves. And the Jobcentres really are completely useless - IME this applies particularly if you do have skills and you do want to work - they just don't know what to make of you.

Also do bear in mind that many advertised vacancies are not even real jobs. They come from agencies touting for business.

[TwoIfBySea]

Oh don't get me started on agencies Twinklemegan! That is an entire thread itself. The job centres really should get their fingers out and become more career centres where people can get proper advice and help from enthusiastic staff who aren't there to fill out forms. (Sorry but this is from my experience!)

You can volunteer for as many hours as you like as long as you can turn up for an interview or start a job at short notice and if on job seekers you need to still be actively looking for work. As long as you aren't being paid anything other than expenses (which you have to tell them about anyway) then there should be no problem. As you said it is good on the old cv and can lead to a proper job.

[Loriycs]

I remember a few years ago, being sent to meet people for interview from the jobcentre that were totally unsuitable for the job. Either that, or they deliberately behaved in a manner that would put any employer off. My boss used to say that they had to attend interviews to keep their dole money but they knew how to aviod actually getting the job!!needless to say they were paid their travelling expenses too.

[Twinklemegan]

I think perhaps what I'm thinking of is if the Government considers you're volunteering in a job that you should be paid for. Again this may have changed - I can't even remember how it came up, I think when DH was signed off sick before we realised we were ineligible for any benefits. But I seem to remember that the type of volunteering I wanted to do - basically working for free for experience - was a big no no.

Lorycs - I don't doubt there are people like that. But it works both ways. The amount of interviews DH attended which were a complete waste of time! They were just going through the motions - lo and behold they just milked everyone's ideas and then appointed the internal candidate. That really really pisses people off! Not to mention the amount of employers who can't even be bothered to acknowledge an application, or notify you of the outcome! It's appalling really and there is absolutely no excuse for it.

[Loriycs]

That happens to everyone im afraid, not just the unemployed. But yes i agree there is no excuse for it.

[Twinklemegan]

Agreed. 'Tis worse for the unemployed though. Especially when they're spending money they haven't got going to those interviews (not everyone can claim JSA and not everyone gets their expenses) which are wasting their time. And also when they're being accused of being wilfully unemployed when actually they're banging their head against a brick wall.