Work for dole

[ReallyTired]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7514513.stm

I think that proposals like these are long over due. Although I think that if you make people work full time for their benefits they won't have time to look for job.

Prehaps they should work three days a week and look for a job two days a week.

There are people who for good reasons cannot work full time, but certainly could do something part time.

haha at being happy and healthy working 48hrs a week (and more) when they can't take breaks (unless they want to get paid less) and where taking a day off sick otherwise they lose out on money, where "routine" is a vareity of unsociable shifts, affecting sleep (and consequently their health), etc etc etc

you know what, i saw this and thought sounds good, but after reading this thread ive changed my mind.
expat you are a v v bright lady, i admire you.
maybe we should have a raise in min wage

gb, that sounds horrible. i think your totally right.

foxymolly-could your neighbours perhaps give me some tips on how to sit on your arse all day and raise 5 children?i must be going wrong somewhere

and how do you know for sure that they are both able to work and dont have any health problems?do you know they have sky tv or is it just that they have a dish?

Maybe divastrop, they are not so much raised, by the sounds of their attitude, but dragged up.

I know they have sky because I am friends with my other neighbour who has had the unfortunate experience of going in their house.
I think using the term 'raising' is generous to say the least. IMO Godzilla hit the nail on the head.
And yes she does just sit on her arse all day, when she decides the little 2yr old shouldn't be playing out the front anymore (normally about 9ish at night) she yells through the living room window for her to come in.

Is it wrong to have an expectation as a society that unless you are unable to work (through, for example, ill health, disability or being a career for a disabled or ill healthed individual IYSWIM), then you SHOULD work.

Yes, some areas have few jobs, but there is work out there in many, many places. Should not working be an option just because someone doesn't fancy the jobs that ARE available, or because a person wouldn't earn much more than they get for sitting around? Fruit pickers can earn up to £20,000 a season.

IMVHO, fat cats and generalised unfairness of life and social injustices aside, there does need to be a work ethic. It used to be enforced through the very motivating fact of starvation...thank goodness that doesn't happen anymore, but for SOME people there does need to be a motivating force beyond 'they could if they wanted to'.

'The problem is how to stop children suffering in families where they aren't even prepared to try'

This is the important point raised on this thread.
While we all sit here and debate social causes and reasons for the state of this country, there are children that are being raised in households where it is considered accaptable not to work and to allow the state to provide for you. That is going to have a major impact on the future of our society and action needs to be taken now in order to tackle this.

PS - if people are genuinely looking for work and getting continual knock backs, they are discounted IMO from the 'lacking work ethic' definition.

It could give something for a CV for a young and inexperienced person, that could swing a 'real' job for them, but is political rhetoric and very unlikely to happen.

foxymolly - there are already areas where, often because the heavy industry has gone, some families have several generations raised on benefits. This isn't that much of a new thing. DH taught a boy when he was training (10+ years ago) who was ecstatic to get qualifications and a job. Boy was the youngest son in a big family and was the first person in 2 generations to hold a full time job. His status in the family shot up (very happy boy!)

Agree with the sentiment and have said that often life is about the expectations the individual has, combined with the good or bad luck that life throws at them. But expectation about what you are capable of or what you could achieve are IMO key.

The school I work at had problems recruiting a grounds maintaince person. (It was all year round and the job had 5 weeks of holiday. The person is only required to work 37 hours a week) The pay was 15K.

yes I am also at 20k for fruit picking - working how many hours a week is that?

riven, do you really think a family cannot survive on 15k a year?

DP only earns 12k before tax for working a 40 hour week and thats more than enough to support our family.

The job in question has a final salary pension scheme and sick pay after you have been in the job for 6 months. Yet no one wants to take the job.

I think a family would struggle on 15K a year. Housing costs in our area are quite high. On that sort of income you would have just under 1K a month to live on after tax.

Assuming the family pays £500 a month for rent in the private sector and the person would have spend about £200 a month getting to work. The family would be left with about £300 a month to live on. Its not a lot for quite a bit of work.

Its do able, but the difference in lifestyle is not enough to moviate people to get off their backsides.

DP doesnt get a pension or sick pay. His travel cost for getting to work are £50 a month.

Our income is approx.
£800 wages
£600 tax credits
£120 child benefit
so total is £1520

outgoings are
£800 rent (its actually £300 as we are council tenants but would be this on the private market)
£300 bills including council tax
£200 food shopping
£50 travel costs
total £1350

so that leaves £180 for luxuries/days out/clothes etc.

I dont see that this is unreasonable, I don't think it is a 'right' to have a huge disposable income and it is certainly not a good enough reason not to work.

I see working(if you are physically/mentally capable) as a means to fulfilling your responsibilty to provide for yourslf and your family.

The only exception can see is those who are caring for a young child or a ill/disabled person, in fact i would like to see a greater provision for them, far from being 'scroungers' they are actually saving the government money.

Oh I should have mentioned that if we were renting privately for £800 a month then we would recieve £400 in housing benefit so our disposable income would be £580

Fiodyl I agree with everything you say

It can be done.

If more people did it then there MAY be more cash available for people who are physically/mentally unable to work, or their careers.

What evidence is there that families on benefits get more than 15K per year, last time I looked benefits didn't amount to that much IYSWIM? Also with the tax credits generally people are better off.

Riven - your approach to what it is reasonable to expect people to do to be financially responsible for their families (no nasty jobs HERE please...) exactly illustrates my point about picky work ethics. Lots of people do jobs they find soulless so that they can support their families, even well paid individuals...

Just curious Riven, why did you do it, the low paid job thing?

20K is a quote from the White Britain TV series - they interviewed farmers who were failing to get pickers as the former eastern block countries now have more competative economies so there's no point in some migrant workers coming for the season, also same problem this year. They interviewed young (single looking men) outside the job centre and explained that they had jobs - I'm sure it was for 20K per year - they were enthusiastic until they found out they would have to get up early and pick food crops . General concept was a bit - wouldn't get out of bed for THAT....

Agree when childcare costs are thrown in it opens up a whole new issue, but it's my personal belief that we need a work ethic - agree whole heartedly with fiodyl!!!

£50 travel costs is quite low as far as travel costs to work go IMO.

Most people I know spend £200+ (and that's including those that drive, and those that use public transport).

So that would leave just £50 - and if they DON'T qualify for housing benefit (which some people don't - I don't - despite getting full council tax benefit and the full rate of IS) that would be £800 they would have to pay - which they wouldn't have!

Disposable income can be vital when paying for things that need repairing, sudden unexpected bills,prescriptions,living with no disposable income is no fun, and can be quite scary.