Work for dole

[ReallyTired]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7514513.stm

I think that proposals like these are long over due. Although I think that if you make people work full time for their benefits they won't have time to look for job.

Prehaps they should work three days a week and look for a job two days a week.

There are people who for good reasons cannot work full time, but certainly could do something part time.

[OverMyDeadBody]

If people are making it a life choice the government should be tackling whatever is going wrong and at what stage for them to make this kind of life choice. They need to get to the root of the problem.

[FAQ]

exactly Foxy - it's not just a few people.

There's a hell of a lot of people who going back to work (even for a cleaning/litter picking etc etc type job) would mean they were worse off financially - or only getting the same amount of income - for working 48hr+ weeks...

Would you go out to work full time, with no "extras" (pensions, paid breaks, sick pay, etc etc etc) if you were going to be no better off (or worse) than if you stayed at home??

I wouldn't to be perfectly honest!

[IHadABetterNameButYouStoleIt]

foxmolly there is abdsoltuley no way some one living on benefits could afford those sorts of things. i get really wound up by that sort of attitude. i am on benefits, i want to work but i cant afford to because of the costs of childcare! i am skint and often have to choose between me eating or paying bills! i have cold baths to save the gas for my dcs!!

if you know people who can afford those things while on benefits i suggest you shop them for working while on the dole. because that is what they are doing.

[FAQ]

but that's not the fault of the people on benefits if nothing is being to ensure that even blue collar workers are treated fairly and get the money they deserve.

Life on benefits is no bed of roses.

[OverMyDeadBody]

Exactly, where's the incentive FAQ? I'd rather potter about at home, do the ironing, cook, keep things in order for DS, then do a shitty 'job' for hours on end just to get my measly living allowance.

[OverMyDeadBody]

Yes, I agree.

And, when even teachers with bloody post grad degrees can't afford to work because they can't pay the rent and child care costs, there really is a problem. Either wages should be increased or the cost of living needs to be more affordable to the majority of the population.

[myredcardigan]

There is a problem though with teenagers leaving school and going straight onto benefits. We need to address that by letting start training at 14.

[foxymolly]

It can't continue though, something has to be done about it.
And although this might not solve the root causes or deep social problems it is a step in the right direction as far as I am concerned.

[OverMyDeadBody]

Yes it can't continue Foxy.

I don't think there is a quick solution to the problem though is there. It is generational and will take few more generations to change the mindset of people who have made it a lifestyle choice.

[LittleMyDancingForJoy]

If you read the article though, people with young children would not be included in this scheme, so the childcare costs are irrelevant.

[myredcardigan]

Why has it happened though??
Just as far back as my parents generation, it was not a lifestyle choice. People on benefits were helped by their community and pitied. It was seen as a very bad thing to stay there long term unless you were physically or mentally unable to work.

[expatinscotland]

I'm glad I was never so blind with bitterness and jealousy that I direct my anger towards people on the bottom fringe of the dole than people scrounging off the top echelon of it, tbh. I say this as a working poor family.

I don't for one second buy the idea that this is a 'step in the right direction'.

Because I don't trust the government enough to implement it in such a way that it won't be just another way to persecute the poor, which they do enough already, to both working poor and not (people on benefits, the disabled, OAPs existing solelly on state pensions, etc.).

Why?

Because they have never once demonstrated a) that they even understand what the root causes of people living on the dole are b) shown the balls to tackle those roots FIRST before breaking out the stick.

And I come from a place where 'welfare to work' is a euphemism for allowing the working poor to go hungry in the wealthiest nation in the world.

[HumphreyCushioni]

Good post, Expat.

[FAQ]

[myredcardigan]

Great post, Expat. I agree wholeheartedly!

It's easy to knock down the most vurnerable in society. What are we doing to help them up?

[OverMyDeadBody]

[FAQ]

>

[expatinscotland]

I guess it's just easier and they're a more visible target, myred, in response to the second sentence of your post.

But it's a wax firescreen, IMO.

It's subterfuge of the highest order and I'd like to think that most people are too intelligent to fall for it.

[OverMyDeadBody]

[myredcardigan]

I agree. I just think it's easy political point scoring and it pisses me off that,

a) The government think I'm stupid enough to fall for it.

b)That too many people will be pleased that the government is 'taking care of the unsightly.'

[expatinscotland]

housing costs are a major obstacle to people going back to work.

they lose a huge chunk of their housing benefit, have to pay full council tax but don't earn enough to cover the decrease.

then there's the tax credit 'system', the state benefit to top up the non-living wage.

hang around this board for just one week and i'll bet you London to a brick there will be at least one thread along the lines of, 'HELP! Tax credits say they overpaid us! They've cut us off completely!'

and if you're making a low enough income to qualify for Working Tax Credit (about £14,5000 or under) that means you are below the poverty line in an instant.

i think there needs to be some SERIOUS address to these two issues before the ol 'work for the dole' is trotted out.

[MmeBovary]

Here in Belgium we pay lots of tax ( as an average earner I hand over 50% of my wages) but:

Childcare places cost the rough equivilent of £400 per month if you pay full wack. It is means tested which means if you don't earn average wages and when you have more than one child you pay less than that. From age 2.5 children enter kindergarten which is free. Pretty much all schools offer before and after school care from 7.30am to 6.00pm for a miniscule amount. I pay 100 euros per month for after shcool childcare, cooked dinners, milk and 10 am soup (they decided this was thing that gave the kids most energy even if they had had a crap breakfast). In the holidays clubs are provided for all ages by the local authority at a reasonable amount. Or you can pay more for tennis lessons or weeks at the seaside All childcare - including the holiday clubs -is tax deductible.

Why can not they do the same in the UK? Basically from 3 months there is affordable childcare. There is no excuse to sit on your arse, and if you want to work the help is there. Obviously if you want to stay at home and/or can afford to then school is not compulsory til 6. I am really glad I am not in the UK right now. But this can be done if you get the priorities right.

[foxymolly]

I'm talking about people that sit on their arse and choose not to work, these are not the most vunerable in our society.

[expatinscotland]

And you trust the government to separate the wheat from the chaff, foxy?

[expatinscotland]

I mean, the Chancellor was just the other day telling people not to ask for pay raises in line with inflation after MPs voted to keep their £24,000 John Lewis allowance as well as a 2.5% pay rise (before the official new figure for inflation was announced).