Work for dole

[ReallyTired]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7514513.stm

I think that proposals like these are long over due. Although I think that if you make people work full time for their benefits they won't have time to look for job.

Prehaps they should work three days a week and look for a job two days a week.

There are people who for good reasons cannot work full time, but certainly could do something part time.

doesn't make sense re: £20k for picking fruit. First of all, it's seasonal.

Perhaps the TV program calculated it on the basis of one weeks pay?

Thats a good idea smallwhitecat.

appropriate to who? Appropiate for the person/individual or appropriate for the goverment body organising the training?

What do you do state that if you don't do the training you can't have money to feed your kids?

I should imagine learning basic skills like reading and writing would be appropriate for everyone involved, the individual and employer

Message withdrawn

The above scheme is not for careers or people with young children

smallwhitecat - agree, good idea.

Don't know how the £20K was calculated - didn't go into details on the telly!

Riven, I think careers should get more support, maybe they could if more people were encouraged back to work.

In the Netherlands, 10 years ago, if you were on benefits you HAD to return to work when all your children were school aged if they were all of sound mind and body, or retrain and you HAD to participate in training for work if you were single. Also you weren't given choices. My friend who received permanent neck damage courtesy of her XH HAD to retrain so she could work when her kids were school age, as she had to give up her career as a Nursery Nurse due to the injury. She didn't mind and agreed it was part of her commitment to her family, to financially support them too.

This isn't just about families, is it? IMVHO it's about having a work ethic (for some) and how to get people back inot the workforce when other posters are right, the step up in finances just isn't enough to motivate some people to do what I think a lot of people would agree is 'the right thing' which is to be as financially independent as possible.

Don't have a problem with people who make a positive contribution - happy to support - BUT the system is such that it is possible to take advantage of it. What about all the singletons who are claiming benefits, what's to stop them from working? They can't even justify their time as providing excellent parenting (as many couples/singles do, when they have children - provide the excellent parenting I mean )

riven - why didn't you just pick up the benefits though, if you really don't think it's a problem for others to? You seem incredibly generous eg you appear to think you should have worked, so you did, but think others shouldn't have to.

Agree that careers shouldn't have to, caring is a job and a half anyway (to put it mildly)!

into not inot

I do hate the way scroungers are always seen as the victim, they are often called vulnerable and described as the people on the lowest fringes of our society.
They chose not to work, not to better themselves.
What happened to the work ethic of start at the bottom and work your way up?
I have done many low paid jobs before and in every single one there was the opportunity to improve my position and earn more money. Even as a cleaner I had the chance to become supervisor. My sister started out as a part time cleaner and is now full time area manager for the same company, she has achieved this whilst being a single parent of four children.

So older children it's ok if they starve but not young ones how old do you have to be then to go without food if your parent/s don't comply to training?

Two things to throw into this - some jobs that pay 12 or 15k, for example, the employer is not looking for someone with a family - they might want to take on a 16- or 18-year-old who can start at the bottom. Not all jobs/wages in an economy have to be enough on which to support a family. The ideal scenario is that people climb up the ladder a little before they have children. Now obviously this isn't always the case, for various reasons, hence the tax credits system.

There is a subtle difference between tax credits and benefits, IMO. Tax credits are aimed at topping up those on low incomes, particularly if they have children. They could equally be paid via the PAYE system by reducing the amount of income tax that person paid, but they chose to administer them separately to make it easier to work out who has children, partners earning etc. So they're not really a benefit, and saying that one can't survive on a low wage without the tax credits/child benefit is sort of irrelevant, iyswim? the point is noone should have to - does that make sense?

don't know if I'm talking nonsense here.

'I should imagine learning basic skills like reading and writing would be appropriate for everyone involved,'

you know,its attitudes like this that used to piss me off when i was a single parent on benefits.intelligent,educated people can end up on benefits as well.

and how can anyone say 'a family can survive on £15K '?it would depend on where you lived and how many children you have for a start.

the government should stop coming up with these pathetic schemes that just fuel the hatred of the jealous DM readers who believe that everyone on benefits is a worthless scrounger spending their hard-earned taxes,and come up with a decent alternative to the very crap tax credits system,then im sure more people would actually want to work.

I think its a good idea, its about time the system had an overhaul. Taxes are barely covering benefits and taxes should not increase because people wont work.

We need to have a work ethic in this country, too many people see benefits (not tax credits) as a lifestyle choice rather than the safety net they were designed for. Children then see that you dont have to work and the cycle continues.

It wont affect carers so they wont suffer. With the reforms in IS and IB at least some changes are being made. Hopefully we'll see a change in government soon and more will be done.

The £50 a month buys a bus pass which allows unlimited travel on all buses in the area for a month. DP travels aprox 10 miles each way and can take up to an hour at busy times.

Im not sure I made myself clear- our actually disposable income is £680 but we are putting away the £500 we save on rent towards buying a house one day. If we were renting privately and getting HB then diposable income would be £580.

So even if there was an emergency and something needed repairing there would be money for it- we would just have to save less that month instead.

Im not sure why if you are on full IS and CTB why you wouldn't get HB too, the only reason I can think is that you have a mortgage rather than rent to pay.

If your total income was only £1000 and your rent was £800 then you would get HB.

IMO If a job doesnt pay enough to cover mortgage payments then don't get a mortgage. Rent instead, if its a low paid job you will get HB. Owning your own home is a luxury and not a right.

no I have rent - but as I'm renting from my ex who I have children with they won't pay it.

Because I'm "reponsible for a child of the landlord".....ironically if we had no children together I would get it

a £50 bus pass is all very well if you have buses that go to near where you work - or if you don't need a car for work.

When ex was looking for a job he applied for anything going - and ended up with one where he HAD to drive (his job is impossible without a car) - so has daily (very expensive) petrol costs.

Very that you can have that much diposable income on a monthly income of £1500!

Foxy molly I have five dc and in May we started claiming JSA after my partner was laid off I can assure you we do not sit on our arses all day in the lap of luxury.
Let me give you an idea of things what I recieve and what your scrounging neighbours will get is roughly the same if they too have 5 dc.
incomings
87.00 a week jsa paid fortnightly
208.00 a week ctc
69.00 a week child benefit.

It sounds a lot but I assure you it does not go far with 5 dc all needing clothing and feeding plus one of my dd's has sn and is home educated so I suppose I should be claiming something for her but that will just make more people consider us scroungers.

I still have to pay rent and council tax which amounts to 32.00 a week due to accumalating arrears when dp was working because our money was even shitter then believe it or not.

I dont claim free school dinners or milk all though I could .

My dp has worked hard and this is the first time we have ever claimed anything other than wtc ,however when I see threads calling people who claim jsa scroungers and have us all down as living in the lap of luxury it makes me so sad and makes me feel as though I have no self respect left at all.
My dp feels the same too and is constantly looking for another job , but I feel the need to constantly make apoligies for the fact we are claiming what we are rightly entitled to and are only taking out of the sysytem what we have put in over the past 15 years.

Maybe you should think twice before slating claimints because if you ever landed in the shit you and I both know that rather than watch your life fall apart you would claim what you are entitled too.

And it is true sometimes you get less money for working full time then claiming Jsa

Sorry for typos . I do know how to read and write even though I am a jobless scrounger

I know someone who has been on benefits for 9 months, she has a masters degree in Biology. She has a little girl who is six years old and lost her job because she had had to take a lot of time off sick.

She is only applying for research jobs and I think its ridiculous. I think that after nine months she should really take any job that fits in with the after school care. (Ie. between 8am and 6 pm)

She has lost all sense of direction. Recently the local swimming pool had a free swimming session. I suggested that she might like to take her daughter and she said that she had no time. How can you have no time when you have the whole day to yourself? I work 37 hours a week but I find time to take my son swimming.

Prehaps it would be a good use of her time to listen to the small number of adults who need literacy help read. Such schemes work well in prisons. Why not the wider community?

www.toe-by-toe.co.uk/prison_project.html

Ofcourse a lot of benefit claimants are bright. Its why its a such a terrible waste them doing nothing with their gifts.