David Cameron: It is your fault if you are fat and poor.

[FairyMum]

Has anyone commented on the David Cameron-speech on moral neutrality? He is a price-dick, isn't he?

Considering I do not know where or what any of these schools are, in fact I didn't even know that some of the places named here were schools, I couldn't give a rat's arse where the person went to school.

But if they can't give it to the public straight, and they think the people are too stupid not to see through it, then I think they're talking mince.

That's what I'm talking about, edam!

Bang on.

I think he's right.

At the end of they day, to a large extent, people's destiny is in their own hands.

Why does everyone make so many excuses for what is often pure laziness?

'Why does everyone make so many excuses for what is often pure laziness?'

Because it is too often used as a lazy excuse to persecute people instead of changing things, society or perceptions to make for a better society in the long-term.

I have been reading the threads about this Goldsmith person. Until now, I was blissfully unaware of her existence. I don't think my life has been improved by knowledge that there is yet another Rich Parasitic Self-Publicist in the world.

well, its not the lazy cream-cake-eating-in-front-of-trisha people who are responsinble for the current credit crunch.

So much easier to kick who is already down though.

And my guess there are just as many lazy irresponsible for own life rich people as poor people.

I think you are wrong there Fairy.

There are very few rich people. There are lots and lots of poor people. Logically there must be more lazy poor people than lazy rich people.

but lazy irresponsible rich people dont tend to live on state handouts, so dont cost us money. you can be as lazy as you like if you can aford it

I think everyone agrees that people should be made to work if possible. This is hardly a new genius idea by DC. Labour has wanted people out to work for years.

I don't think the credit crunch is particularly relevant in what I understood to be a much more general discussion.

I think there are a huge number of lazy, unwilling, unambitious people around who are actually harmed, not helped by the welfare state.

"I think there are a huge number of lazy, unwilling, unambitious people around who are actually harmed, not helped by the welfare state."

Everyone thinks that.What worries me is where DC wants to go with this. Anyone knows? What does he want to do to the welfare system? Is this about the "worthy" and "unworthy" poor?

Worthy and unworthy is highly subjective and smacks of the whole class thing.

Nothing wrong with weeding out the spongers from the genuine cases though surely?

Ever read British newspapers from the time of the Irish Famine?

Interesting stuff, how many of these publications directly blamed the Irish people for the famine, and even believed it to be punishment from God for the laziness, rebelliousness, idleness and inferiority of the Irish people.

The Irish wrongly blamed the entire British public, not realising that suffrage was only available to men who owned property then, which let out about 90% of the male population of mainland Britain.

Plus ca change . . .

You want to see what this belief that the poor are poor because they are lazy, feckless, unambitious and unwilling to 'pull themselves up by the bootstraps' has done to a society?

Look no further than MN's favourite target for a good slagging off, Britain's very own progency: the USA.

Is that really how you want to go?

"But social problems are often the consequence of the choices that people make." So I chose to have children and if the man I chose to have with them disappears or dies or becomes ill and I struggle on one salary that is a consequence of my choice to have children when I didn't already have money in the bank (or in inherited property) to pay for them.

Actually I'm not poor and I can fund my children myself. But I was ill for a long time, with problems the NHS didn't recognise. My own fault - by DC's logic - because I chose not to have private medical insurance. As I was too ill to exercise and I've a genetic tendency to gain weight easily (PCOS) I'm overweight. A year of regular exercise, (including regular gym sessions), careful eating and very little alcohol has made little difference. But to DC and his like I'm fat and lazy - and nothing would convince him otherwise because his mind is closed.

Perhaps there are "undeserving" poor and people fat by choice out there - but look into their backgrounds first and maybe you'd find it wasn't quite that simple.

DC thinks he's done the caring and compassionate bit. He is now saying what he has thought all along - that only people like him matter.

Those choices are often constrained by your socio-economic position. The better off and the more well-educated you are, the more ability you have to control your life. If you are on the council housing waiting list, you don't have much choice about where you live, hence less choice about where to shop, your children's school etc. etc. etc. Bus fares are bloody expensive so you may have less opportunity to get out and about.

And better-off people do make choices that impact on the rest of us. They pushed up house prices in Cornwall with their second homes, for instance, destroying some communities and making it impossible for ordinary people to buy their own homes.

Those gits in the City with their clever-clever money making schemes have plunged us into recession, making it harder for ordinary people and small businesses to get credit and throwing people out of work. They are the board members of the big supermarkets who control what we eat. They are the politicians who set policies that affect all of us.

Good post Edam

Thing is though, the poor guy can't help being Stupid. Fecking over-privaliged fuck-wit.

i love the amount of people on this thread condemning cameron for attacking the poor and saying "it's your fault if you're poor", ebven though i am pained to find where he said that anywhere but in the misleading thread title.if anyone could show me i'd be delighted because i am starting to think that the words attributed to him in the thread title may have been fabricated to get a response
yet are more than happy to attack him for his social background. "over-priviledged fuck-wit" being just one example.

I think you make some very good points there edam.

Yes, you can make good healthy food far cheaper than all of the pre-packed shit that people eat. However, it takes time. A lot of poorer families have both parents working to stay afloat. Lots of reasons for lack of time. If however you are well off, you can purchase much healthier food and not have to cook from scratch. Honeslty the guy is a prick!!

We are pretty poor just now - and i will be the first to admit, it is our own faults actually. But that is us, i know lots of people who really struggle and have very little choice about their situation.

They really do live in their own little sanitised worlds don't they.

wholeheartedly agree with what edam said - but i would add that the socio economic restraint is not an excuse - rather an explaination.

why not attack him for his background, im often attacked for mine!! Sponger (my parents had a council house) been on single parent benefits. I don't think him being called an over-privaliged fuckwit will bother him in quite the same way. He wont give a shit, because my opinion, being not of the right class, wont count for much.

"why not attack him for his background"

it just seems slightly hypocritical to me on a thread where some people are giving out about DC tarring all poor people with the same brush to do exactly the same to rich people. a bit like a black person saying "that honkey/cracker is racist"

fair enough attack him if you think he is unfairly stereotyping all poor people,i'd have no problem with that, i just think that such attacks lose a lot of credibility when they include the exact same practice that they are giving out about. i.e. class stereotypes.