Doctor's strike - what do they actually get paid?

[MageQueen]

I see doctors are striking again. They want a 29% increase, after 5.5% the last two years and the approx 20% they got after the last strike.

I'm a bit confused. What do they actually earn?

Broadly, I'm in favour of NHS doctors being paid a good wage but I think they lost me when they say that salaries need to be equivalent to 2008. I mean, I don't disagree, but they're not the only ones whose pay is significantly lower in real terms and with all due respect, unlike most of us, they've at least had SOME improvements? I wouldn't want to be a nurse, a retail worker, a childminder etc at this point becuase as far as I can tell, pay has barely moved in 10 years even as cost of living has spiralled.

But then, I don't know what they earn so for all I know, they're on very low wages considering the responsibility we put on them.

www.bma.org.uk/pay-and-contracts/pay/resident-doctors-pay-scales/pay-scales-for-resident-doctors-in-england

I was all in favour of the last strike after seeing what they were getting paid but aside from the first year it seems reasonable enough pay now for what they do. I think it's time others were prioritised for a while instead. The problem seems to be that there isn't enough money to go around because it's being spaffed on net takers across services and we have to all bekind so we can't remodel anything or leave people to their own poor choices.

I also think doctors need to think very carefully about what future they want for themselves and the profession, when medical students coming up to graduation are struggling to find jobs because there seem to be plenty of doctors from abroad willing to work at the advertised salary in a country with clean drinking water, reliable electricity and no ebola, and where a political party who want that to change but also want to end the NHS are widely thought to be frontrunners for the next election atm.

Their pay is far lower than doctors get in most other Western economies. And there are huge problems with training contracts in the NHS going to foreign doctors rather than British students, some of whom are left doing locum work because all the training places are gone.

It's a really shit hand to be dealt, to fork out for 5-6 years of university, then miss out on a training contract (with a couple of weeks notice!) and have no job to go to other than bank shifts, in favour of someone who has trained overseas and has more experience because they're older and have a different training setup wherever they studied.

I'm not at all surprised doctors are striking, and I fully support them. Pay is only one element of the strike.

DS 28 is a doctor and his younger siblings (26) one trainee lawyer and one in business outran him significantly in much easier jobs.
he’s now in Oz where he hogged a decent salary and rota and respect from patients

Curious as to what the other elements are - I just looked at the BMA website listed above and under 'Campaigns' for Consultants and Resident Doctors it only lists 'Pay' as a campaign. Is this something else? I'd like to understand properly what they are striking about if not just pay.

It’s things like length of shifts and phasing etc the responsibilities they carry for the hours, shifts, debt & pay is scary.

Junior Drs can have many years of experience.

I don't suppose you know if there is anywhere official I can read more about that? I can't find anything on their website and I'd like to know more.

BTW I'm not disagreeing that these are issues they're campaigning for but it seems a bit of an own goal that this is not being communicated by the BMA and that the website says it's 'just' a campaign about pay (....unless it is somewhere and I've missed it!)

Yes unfortunately the BMA is too busy campaigning for transwomen to bother about doctors..

I’d also like to know and have clarity as to all the reasons they are striking. If it’s just about pay, then I do have little sympathy as they’ve already had an uplift of some degree and they knew what they were signing up for. I work in healthcare as a HCP and my pay has barely moved at all.

If your pay has barely moved then your union need to pull their finger out, lean on them, don't begrudge other HCPs for being in a union that takes decisive action.

I thought strikes didn't happen under labour?

I don’t know about doctors but teachers are only allowed to strike over very specific things and one of them is pay, so pay often serves as a proxy for wider issues. I know I’ve been on strike over pay when in fact I’m generally ok with the salary but do have an issue with more and more being put on teachers while year after year we lose pay in real terms. I’d think this also very much applies to doctors (and nurses/police/social workers etc etc).

Why are they so reticent about stating a figure? What is their pay now?

@Ohthatsabitshit

No one cares about mental health, we are the poor cousin to physical health!

Bit shocked by those salary scales. I earn just over £58k and my job is far easier.

@KvotheTheBloodless the strike is about pay. They haven’t made demands about other issues. Unfortunately the BMA leadership are totally politically captured. They are kidding themselves with Wes. He’s very different from the Tories. He will play hardball anc they’ll look greedy and uncaring. Which they are

Re pay you need to remember that they are also receiving significant enhancements for nights etc. my daughter is a doctor. Since she graduated 3 years ago she’s been able to run a car, live in a city centre flat and take holidays abroad. Pretty decent quality of life.

Yes, I hear you but it's not a race to the bottom.

But this pay is absolutely not what they signed up for. For example, my DH (still a junior dr, albeit a very senior, experienced and skilled one) applied for medical school in 2008, so that’s when he committed to working for the NHS. Since then, pay has decreased by at least 20% in real terms. Doctors are nowhere near as well paid as they were even 15 years ago.

We are literally haemorrhaging doctors to Australia, NZ etc. A raise would go a long ways to making it appealing to stay in this country.

Sorry but as a net taker I think you misunderstand. I work full time. I pay my taxes. And I have a condition which is genetic…nothing I do can stop it. But I take more than I give because my meds are £2k a month. If you lived with my condition you’d be suicidal so frankly fuck off.

But that’s exactly the same as me as a professional working in mental health. I’ve studied at university for 5 years, and I’ve accumulated debt as well. Of course I’m not a doctor, but what I’m trying to say is there are many, many, other NHS jobs where pay has not risen in line with inflation and cost of living.

I am getting quite annoyed that they’ve already had an uplift due to previous strikes and no one else is.

I am worse off than a mental health professional 15 years ago too!

I have a feeling their post wasn’t aimed at someone such as yourself.

Broadly speaking I don't think doctors getting another pay rise is a priority.
I also don't agree with the argument about comparison to other countries. The UK has great living standards compared to many countries and whilst we have a cost of living crisis it is still a great place to live. Can all these other countries that pay their doctors more say that ?