Doctor's strike - what do they actually get paid?

[MageQueen]

I see doctors are striking again. They want a 29% increase, after 5.5% the last two years and the approx 20% they got after the last strike.

I'm a bit confused. What do they actually earn?

Broadly, I'm in favour of NHS doctors being paid a good wage but I think they lost me when they say that salaries need to be equivalent to 2008. I mean, I don't disagree, but they're not the only ones whose pay is significantly lower in real terms and with all due respect, unlike most of us, they've at least had SOME improvements? I wouldn't want to be a nurse, a retail worker, a childminder etc at this point becuase as far as I can tell, pay has barely moved in 10 years even as cost of living has spiralled.

But then, I don't know what they earn so for all I know, they're on very low wages considering the responsibility we put on them.

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Army privates also get board and lodging and they don't pay for their education. Entry requirements are incredibly low.

That’s not really relevant to that graph, which is about pay increases. Their actual pay is much less than junior doctors anyway (which makes sense for the reasons you’ve said), but it is also gone up by a smaller amount. Which is the point of the graph.

You see 55% of the British people don't view this as genocide and this from a poll with probable bias. In other words a majority don't see the conflict as genocide.

If we asked the same question of the Holocaust and for the sake results I would be fearing for the humanity in this country but this shows people do have the ability to critically think.

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Yeah, so if you go with the torygraph and pick the only time period in the last 15 years that residents have had an above inflation pay rise, guess what the data shows!

Lets go with something a little more objective like the ONS, cpi rather than rpi........

... Aaaaaaand, guess what? Doctors still being payed comparitively less on average than both cost of living and average uk salaries.

And so it should be. You don’t get to be a doctor without being very academically able and consistently hard working.

Frankly anyone who’s gone through 5-6 years of university, particularly in stem, should be able to have a decent quality of life.

I graduated in 1998 (in IT) and would have been mighty pissed off if I’d not been able to
holiday abroad after all that work.

I think they need to end FS schemes in this country - we are pouring so much money into these schemes many of the Council schemes are having to pay so much more in. Pay staff a share of what was going into their pensions and I think everybody would be much happier and let them think about their own pension planning like the rest of the UK

Who's still on a final salary scheme?

I am to be fair- thanks to the Mc Cloud judgement - god knows how much this would have cost the government.

I don’t mind surgeons getting a good wage but GPs get enough. All they do is give out medication. They don’t want to know or find out why it’s happening they just learn what medication is suitable for the symptoms.

That was going to be my point, nobody currently starting practice, and a rapidly vanishing body of currently practicing consultants. I.e bot really relevant to current discussions as it doesnt really apply anymore.

The protection iirc was for people within 10 yrs of retirement. So the only people still on final salary should be retiring this year as there's absolutely no reason to work beyond retirement...

Everyone else was transitioned in 2015 to career average, and some will a small amount in the final salary scheme..

Doctors get paid differently for the same work , depending on when they trained. Anyone starting post F2 training this year (so started uni in 2017 or 2018) is on plan B, which pays less overall. Obviously when the media quotes doctors pay, they miss this out.

The Mc Cloud judgement changed that. It is for everyone with payment in the 95 section.

https://www.nhsemployers.org/articles/mccloud-remedy

@FixTheBoneNHS councils and public sector in general

Nhs not for a decsde

@FixTheBone career average schemes are still defined benefit - final salary. I wish my employer was making a 30% contribution to my pension 🙄

Well they should be

24%, not that it makes a difference. It could be 2.4% or 240%, the amount payed out would be the same. Tje contributions are nominal, they're not paid or saved anywhere or stored in a perosnal pot for each person.

Also, its not final salary, at least not in the way it was, and in which most people refer to, when the entire pension was based on the highest earning of your last three years. Now, as career average that figure almost 30% less as your pensionable salary as a resident is about 30-50k for 15 years.

The obr reckons the nhs scheme already runs at a 4.3bn surplus.... So my pension is actually subsidising the country, as if it wasnt bad enough intook a 15 year pay cut to bail out the city.

The pension scheme is currently in surplus but the long term liabilities are not funded.

I would be much more sympathetic to Resident Doctors if they didn’t have the gigantic, and extremely expensive, pensions coming their way. Doctors pensions are so vast that I don’t see how we can continue to pay them never mind a significant pay rise. Either doctors accept the lean years knowing they get a very generous pension, or give up their pensions and have bigger pay earlier. Both is unsustainable.

Because the pension once being withdrawn is linked to CPI and increases.

And the wages (and hence pension contributions) that pay for it all have fallen behind by 25%? There is a solution for that....

The salaries in the US are much much higher thought

Isn’t that the case for us all though?!

So after 5 years medical school, 2 years foundation training and 6 years of speciality training you think £54,000 is reasonable enough pay for what they do?
you would be happy with the most senior surgeon on a night shift operating on your child, which quite likely might be a senior registrar, earning £54k?
I know I want the people operating on my child to be the best of the best. Those people aren’t going to hang around or even bother training in the nhs for £54k after 13 years training.

Pretty sure Australia and New Zealand can