Doctor's strike - what do they actually get paid?

[MageQueen]

I see doctors are striking again. They want a 29% increase, after 5.5% the last two years and the approx 20% they got after the last strike.

I'm a bit confused. What do they actually earn?

Broadly, I'm in favour of NHS doctors being paid a good wage but I think they lost me when they say that salaries need to be equivalent to 2008. I mean, I don't disagree, but they're not the only ones whose pay is significantly lower in real terms and with all due respect, unlike most of us, they've at least had SOME improvements? I wouldn't want to be a nurse, a retail worker, a childminder etc at this point becuase as far as I can tell, pay has barely moved in 10 years even as cost of living has spiralled.

But then, I don't know what they earn so for all I know, they're on very low wages considering the responsibility we put on them.

See the graph up thread.

Private sector medical and technical and scientific jobs have outpaced inflation

Yes, but not 0% for a decade. You can see in the graph what's happened to the average worker's private sector pay.

Private sector medical and technical and scientific jobs have outpaced inflation

Which isn't most jobs in the private sector is it?

Care workers shouldn't be on next to nothing. The solution is to call this out and support them campaigning for more, not using it to say doctors deserve less.

Not a resident doctor now but there is so much more to be done re conditions - accommodation, rotas, training places and a good working relationship with Govt is crucial
i am in a 2 doctor family - we did not have the high mortgage costs/ childcare costs as the current generation but significantly less flexibility in working hours ( full time or out in early days) and no working time directive
we have loved out interesting careers and been financially secure ( and a good pension to look forward to)
for the first time in decades we have got a health secretary I like and admire and a Govt that is prioritising the NHS. Give them a chance and work with them not against them.
I am dismayed and disappointed by this decision and many resident doctors will feel the same
But we managed fine without them last time, as time went on in the strikes less and less got cancelled. Resident doctors work in teams ( and NHS non doctor colleagues supported them a lot) Patients can be reassured they will be looked after. Medicine is a great career and a privilege. Our earning capacity is excellent over a career lifetime.

You also have to account for benefits eg pension, sick pay, maternity pay etc. It's not just about pay.

@ipredictariot5 my doctor friends & family feel like you. But maybe it's a generational thing.

But they are equivalent jobs and far outpace inflation

Financial sector has done the best, despite my decade long pay freeze bailing out a lot of the biggest institutions.

Private sector as a whole has outpaced public sector as a whole.

All high earners are affected by things such as the child benefit cliff edge at £100k. Like it or not it is part of a general taxation policy aimed at making sure the wealthy pay more. Doctors have really lost all perspective if they expect to be treated as a special kind of high earner that shouldn't have to contribute taxes in the same way that other high earners do.

@PeonyPatch has the misfortune of working for a private company commissioned by NHS but not under agenda for change hence much less favourable terms
see up thread
which is a shit situation for all the psychology grads working for NHS talking therapies

My husband is a consultant. His basic pay is £126k and then he does extra PAs so gets paid £157k in total. For doctors a full time role is 10PAs but many do more. This is after years and years of training and specialism though.

They start to earn a rate higher than the student loan threshold, meaning they have to start repaying loans at a point where they are still taking out loans to carry on their education

https://www.bma.org.uk/pay-and-contracts/pay/resident-doctors-pay-scales/pay-scales-for-resident-doctors-in-england

https://www.gov.uk/repaying-your-student-loan/what-you-pay

Without any Doctor's accommodation/lodgings or parking or anything else

The very lowest FY1s net less than I do as a Band 2 Admin drone

Do you think he’s not paid enough?

This is not the first time it has been pointed out that £100K doesn't go as far as it did. That is separate from the resident doctors' issues..----

They were. However, they still had some way to go, and as I said, in that year the average was 56 hrs.

Disingenuous as ever, the BMA comrades also ignore the employers' pension contribution which was 14% in 2008/9 as opposed to 23.7% now. When you take that into account, today's F1 earns several thousand pounds more in real terms than her 2008/9 equivalent for working fewer hours - admittedly without free accommodation (but also without 72 hour stretches carrying a cardiac arrest bleep).

Doctors have been treated like naughty children since Shipman. It may be karmatic that they are behaving like them now, but it is not a good look.

What goes into our pension from a government perspective makes zero difference to how much we get paid at pension age on the 2015 scheme

I think the scale are roughly on a par with a teacher's.

I've worked in the NHS and I have been a teacher, doctors should be paid more than teachers, quite a bit more.

Most teachers do a degree taking 3 years and then a teaching qualification either a PGCE or a masters - 1 or 2 years.

Doctors spend at least 5 years training before they are a Dr. Then they carry on training and studying at the same time as working.

Drs pay about £500 per year to register with the GMC. Teachers pay £33 pa to register with the TRA.

Doctors pay for their own post graduate education, the 'full' training to call your self a GP or an anaesthetist etc. this can be £20 000 in total, usually around £3000 a year.

So that top note of £36 616 pa is actually nearer £30 000.

I think one way the government could avert this strike would be to offer something with the training, either to cover the cost or a loan like a student loan that doesn't begin to be paid until you are fully qualified.

I wish they would stop using the comparison of other countries. I could have got paid more in Australia as a nurse. So what. The men are sexist and food was more expensive so I didn’t go there. They live in the UK. They have many benefits to living in the UK. This is what they get paid. Let’s focus on other professions that haven’t recently had a massive pay hike and who’s jobs are bloody hard too; social workers, nurses, occupational therapists, radiographers etc etc.

@HollyhockDaysi think she just wanted to brag! Weirdly!

@sashh is correct. Most people complaining about doctors pay have no idea of the profession, how long the training is or what the life and work really involves. It is very very hard in terms of being moved around constantly, working tons of nights, then days, then nights, then studying, then paying for your own exams , which are rigged to pass a low percentage because of low numbers of consultants. The full training is around 14 years.

In think resident doctors haven't read the room at this time of heightened economical concern and many will feed inevitable tax rises are going straight in to doctors pockets without seeing an increase in productivity. The government has to stand firm.

Agreed.

Completely agree

f1s are supposed to be working with full supervision. Their wage takes that lack of responsibility (which isn’t always achieved) I’ve account.
physician associates earn more because they are on agenda for change terms and conditions. The BMA could have those but doesn’t want them. Would have to give up paid breaks for a start.

Correct - but it does mean that the proportion of your pay that goes towards the cost of your pension is not more, and your net pay is therefore higher.