Doctor's strike - what do they actually get paid?

[MageQueen]

I see doctors are striking again. They want a 29% increase, after 5.5% the last two years and the approx 20% they got after the last strike.

I'm a bit confused. What do they actually earn?

Broadly, I'm in favour of NHS doctors being paid a good wage but I think they lost me when they say that salaries need to be equivalent to 2008. I mean, I don't disagree, but they're not the only ones whose pay is significantly lower in real terms and with all due respect, unlike most of us, they've at least had SOME improvements? I wouldn't want to be a nurse, a retail worker, a childminder etc at this point becuase as far as I can tell, pay has barely moved in 10 years even as cost of living has spiralled.

But then, I don't know what they earn so for all I know, they're on very low wages considering the responsibility we put on them.

I agree. I don’t think it is a priority either!

As a spouse of an NHS medic, lets not forget that GB trained (and GB resident) medical students leave university significantly better off than those who trained in other countries in terms of educational debt. USA medics start their careers with between $200-400,000 debt. I do think it's a bit poor to then leave once qualified for overseas. But hey-ho, tax payers mustn't grumble!

Because they cant strike over the other issues as they are mainly extra contractural, things like career structure, rotational training, accomodation, etc.

The hope is strike over pay and some of the other things can be brought into the negotiation.

Wow.... She can, afford a place to live, and a holiday for doing one of the most specialised, highly skilled jobs in the country?

She should be grateful.

Health Secretary Wes Streeting called the move "unnecessary and unreasonable" and added: "The NHS is hanging by a thread - why on earth are they threatening to pull it?"
He said the strike was "without historic precedent" given the medics had received a 28.9% pay increase over the last three years, and were not in the interest of patients or staff.

Resident doctors have been awarded a 5.4% pay rise for this financial year - which will go into pay packets from August - following a 22% increase over the previous two years.
But the BMA says wages are still around 20% lower in real terms than in 2008.

A Downing Street spokesperson added that the medics had "received the highest pay award across the public sector for two years in a row".

That’s not what I’ve read at all. Apparently Wes tried to discuss other elements with them, but as pay wasn’t negotiated, they decided to go ahead and strike for 5 days.

All of the agenda for change payscales have declined less significantly than medical salaries over the last 15 years...

Does the term junior doctor just apply to those in foundation years 1 & 2? I want to be clear on what this graph refers to as a jr doctor

This.
Resident Doctors starting pay is lower than doctor's assistants who they are obliged to supervise.
Resident doctor starts on £38800
Physician's Associate starts on £45000

I read on BBC News that Wes Streeting said he wouldn't negotiate on pay but will discuss working conditions but the BMA refused to meet him on that basis. So it does seem like it is primarily about pay?

That is bloody ridiculous!

Anyone not a consultant. Its from just before the term was changed to resident doctor toward the end of last year.

Consultants have had even greater pay erosion over the same period, and further still if you consider all the cliff edges such as child benefit loss etc that didnt exist when we started training.

I’m confused about the comparisons to other professions? Other professions can argue for a pay rise/ organise strike action.

Wes Streeting said the public and he will never forgive them if they strike- I won’t either!

Too much, or not enough?

Everyone from f1 f2 ct1 ct2 ct3 st4 st5 st6 st7 (st8+ in surgical specialties/dual trained icu drs).. any non-consultant basically.

The other issues are the hours, the lack of breaks at work (I just did a shift 7.30am till 23.30 as a really sick patient I couldn't leave, last drank at 9am), very little say where you get placed around the ciuntry so cant settle near friends/buy houses etc, lack of training jobs available so 20k drs are expected to be unemployed come August, no funding for non training jobs, similar at a consultant level, hardly any jobs available so so much uncertainty and stress

Its taken a year to get into a room. They promised to sort the issues alluded to, including a path to pay restoration by December last year. It was one of the conditions of ending the previous round of strikes.

That hasn't happened.

It was never going to happen without a big stick.

The RDC had been waiting 47 days since their last invite for discussions. Wes only offered to meet after the ballot result, and then, only with the whole BMA leadership, not the resident doctor's committee, which is pointless.

The threat of strikes on a short time line should focus minds and shorten the dispute. The last dispute cost significantly more than just settling for the full amount the residents were asking for.

Doesnt nake any difference to me.

Youll have to come and see us and pay our salaries whichever way. People already spend most of the appointment complaining about things outside of my control in any case

I think the optics are bad for the doctors to go on strike after the OBR comments about the state of the uk economy . I would be surprised if they have wide spread public support again .

@PeonyPatch I assume u are RMN ?
how many years post qual are u ?
RMN’s have had pay increases in recent years under agenda for change ??
and the one off post Covid back log bonus ??

it sucks that nurses have to incur student debt to qualify but that all nurses -
not a mental health is the poor relation thing -

don’t begrudge the Dr’s their pay lift -

if u are RMN your work is helped by having consistent decent medics in the team, not more expensive locums filling the gaps

no, I am a CBT therapist. We had no uplifts, and I worked through out the whole pandemic. I also returned to f2f working much before GPs. In fact I’ve never had an in person GP appt since pre pandemic!!

This is true crabs in a bucket mentality.

If you are unhappy with your salary then you need to join a union and use collective bargaining power to improve that.

Ultimately- sympathy or no sympathy- public support or not, doctors have consistently democratically mandated that they are unhappy with their pay. If we choose not to acknowledge and support that, they will leave.

I suspect that for a long time the aim from successive sitting governments and their McKinsey blue sky thinkers, that the future is one with far fewer doctors than we are used to. Pay rises have been stagnated for years because governments don’t think the role has worth or longevity en mass. Read the 10 year plan- replacement by stealth of non-medically trained professionals and AI.

It’s really come to something that the prevailing attitude is that an entire generation of young doctors must be the bad guys in this country. Bizarre.

Other professions in the NHS. All the money shouldn’t just go to doctors alone (imo). Many other HCP jobs have had their salaries eroded.

Ok,
you NHs Talking Therapies ?
not linked to agenda for change ??

Have you seen our pay? It’s peanuts!