Three members of Lucy Letby hospital senior leadership team arrested.

[MissJoGrant]

Story here:

From the article linked in the OP:

It follows a panel of medical experts has concluded that "no criminal offences had been committed" in the case of child killer Lucy Letby.
The 14-strong panel has provided alternative causes of death.
An international panel of medical experts has provided case summaries on all 17 babies who featured in the 10-month trial of Lucy Letby

People aren't "jumping" to anything. It's part of the article being discussed.

Me too

I think this is very interesting, they go into the details of the Lucy Letby case.

I'm not saying Letby is innocent, I am saying the hospital had serious problems, including:

• infection in the hospital's water that the hospital kept trying to get rid of they knew it was giving babies sepsis
• the consultants were supposed to be doing rounds two times a day, they were actually doing rounds two times a week
• the Drs decided the best way to deal with a baby who had a swollen abdomen was to randomly stab the baby in the abdomen with a needle multiple times - they pieced the babies liver
• the consultants testified that they didn't hear alarms going off, the nurses heard the alarms
• multiple times they missed babies veins with the needles and caused blood clots
• they made very basic mistakes dosing babies with dextrose

That's just a small amount of the information. Think about how much would have been "lost", "forgotten", or simply not written down.

I think everyone working in that hospital that had anything to do with the neonatal ward should face charges for negligence.

Didn't it come to light that they ignored the doctors warnings and put ll back into wards?

There’s no implication that the two are linked though.

Wait with the what now?! Does this mean LL could be innocent? That she could have been set up to take the fall/be a scapegoat?!

edit: Just noticed this...

I don't see any suggestion from today's news coverage that Letby is 'off the hook'. More likely they are going after the managers who failed to stop her.

Oh, thank you.

.

This kind of talk drives me nuts. This idea that senior managers are evil bureaucrats wanting to cover stuff up (why? they are WELL AWARE that corporate manslaughter is a risk in their work).

In reality most will try to persuade bereaved parents that you think their newborn should be given an autopsy by the coroner, when they just want to bury their baby. But they can't force them!

I'm reading it as the managers should have stopped her sooner and that's why they've been arrested.
I am convinced that she's guilty and I think people like David Davies turning this into some kind of whodunnit? Netflix show should be ashamed.

They have, but realistically the police would say that regardless. I don't think it tells us anything either way.

Exactly.

She actually linked the wrong article - the article in the OP is from April this year and not about the news today of the three arrests.

But the panel of medical experts are people hired by the defence to try and mount a case to get it sent back to appeal (she has used up all her appeals so now it has to go to the CCRC to see whether they agree she has the right to an additional appeal). Their findings have been out since April.

I know this isn’t the most important point but it’s the question I came to find this thread to ask:

Why haven’t the people been named? In other crimes I think the perpetrator is always named (unless a child).

Exactly. None of this is suggesting that she's innocent.

I'm not sure a belief that LL's unsafe conviction is linked to these arrests (although it's a reasonable suspicion) is the reason that people think she's been scapegoated. It's hardly "jumping to conclusions" to cast doubt on her guilt when faced with the findings from the independent panel. People are discussing their general feelings about the case, and these arrests do cast further doubt on the background to the deaths.

The situation we now have is the prosecution of inept managers who were promoted off the wards into management without any qualifications and experience to manage. These useless men with their eyes closed ought to have intervened before she committed further murders but didn’t because like so many other deranged people didn’t think she was capable of such evil because of the way she looks. Innocent my arse.

They don't usually name people until they're charged - up until that point they're only under suspicion and you can't go naming people who might be entirely innocent.

To me it suggests that she did do it and that other members of staff either knew or suspected something and did nothing about it.

It's an interesting contrast with what happened when Letby was arrested.

As someone who both works in the public sector and who has had awful experiences of the NHS and its complaint procedures, I am really pleased about this.

The NHS has a well deserved reputation for not acting on reports of poor practice, and uses the complaints system only to defend itself, to the point of staff lying about happened ( my personal experience), rather than using it to improve practice.

As a public sector employee, I recently raised a serious concern at work about risk being caused to the public and to ourselves as an organisation and was told to shut up and stay in my lane, as the management closed ranks. ( Ironically we had just had our organisational values sent around which was all about acting with honesty and integrity and speaking up).

The culture in the public sectors sucks and needs serious improvement. I am glad to see some accountability being demanded here.

But it indicates she may be innocent or have been scapegoated.
It brings a huge question mark over her conviction.

Scape goated? She was the once actually causing the harm not the senior team. They failed to take action. That is their misendeavour.

Those poor babies and their families. 😢

@WitchesofPainswick said This idea that senior managers are evil bureaucrats wanting to cover stuff up (why?
Read about the South Wales Maternity Service, I saw the article on Sunday Times. Managers and Doctors lied to bereaved parents over and over again.

Also, she doesn’t have to be found to be innocent. She just has to be found “not guilty”.

Where it may get interesting is if those managers defend on the basis of the recent evidence raised at the press conference a couple of months ago I.e. they are not guilty of manslaughter for failing to stop Letby because she didn't actually do it.

But... Manslaughter and Murder are distinct crimes - so if a person is guilty of manslaughter another cannot be guilty of murder in the same case.

If that was the case the negligent party would be guilty of complicity in a murder, not of manslaughter, which is defined as causing death without malice aforethought.

There is going to be a lot coming out of this - anything could happen going forward.

I suppose it's worth also considering the deaths related to these individuals may not be the same deaths in the Letby case.