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Trump v Musk; popcorn moment!

316 replies

fixingmylife · 05/06/2025 20:47

Musk has just tweeted that Trump is on the Espstein list. Shock horror, not! :-) This is going to roll and roll. USA elected children to run the country and to be the leader of the Western World! Popcorn at the ready......

OP posts:
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19
llizzie · 16/06/2025 23:29

AliasGrace47 · 16/06/2025 22:48

I agree w a lot of what you say. Many men we know are in Hamas. But when you say every night the men are missing, that they are all well-fed & well-scrubbed and prioritising their food over their wives & kids, do you have evidence for this?

It is a good point that the famine is mostly affecting women. But is this really mainly bc the cruel husbands are being fed by Hamas at night while their starving wives are bombed? I know some men will be in Hamas.

But on the BBC I didn't think the Gazan men I saw looked particularly well-fed or clean.

This is an important question & needs to be dug into more by the press.

I definitely agree that Israel must vanquish Hamas ASAP. I do have ethical concerns about the Gazan women & children & non Hamas men. But it is v hard to know what is happening and whether any mitigation is possible. Many people, for instance, are refusing to leave as they fear they will not be allowed home. Complex, but ultimately no one should prioritise that over the lives of children who have no say.

Thank you for your response. I appreciate it and your comment. It is something which must be looked into.

Unless Hamas is defeated, there is little hope for the Palestinians. When Hamas attacked on 7/10 and took hostages, they knew the IDF would go in to recover them. Why? Was Hamas getting the IDF to do for them what Assad did to his opposition, which Putin does to his, and Erdogan is doing now?

It puts it in another perspective. I believe I am right about the food distribution. I happen to have mentioned that the men looked for too well fed, and last week the videos were showing older men, and I don't believe for one moment that when the food is given to the women and older men there isn't a Hamas fighter round the corner ready to take it off them.

I remember one clip a couple of weeks ago where a man shouted at Hamas to stop. Hamas could stop the war by giving Israel back the hostages. Remember kidnapping is a crime in every country, some with capital punishment, yet there are marches in favour of Hamas. Why? Why would people not know that they are not marching for the Palestinians, but for Hamas? Look at the Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon. Do you think the Lebanese and Hezbollah treat them well?

I cannot be sure, because you cannot be sure of speech when the speaker is not usually English speaking, but I am pretty sure than one mother with her thin baby blamed Hamas for taking baby food. It was not repeated, which made me think that perhaps I was right.

TooBigForMyBoots · 16/06/2025 23:54

llizzie · 16/06/2025 19:57

Gets more shocking daily. Has Trump given up asking warring factions to 'cease their playground fights? I sensed as much in the news today about Iran.

Iran, Islamic Revolutionary Guards and Islamic Morality Police:

Did you see the video of the attack on Tehran TV studio?

Israel sent out a warning of attack in that area. Did all the men run for their lives leaving the women to face the attack alone?

It is what I immediately thought when the female announcer was speaking when there was an explosion.

If that isn't proof that Islam hides behind their women, I don't know what is.

Do you have any evidence that all the men ran for their lives, leaving the women to face the attack alone? What are you basing this on?

llizzie · 17/06/2025 00:36

TooBigForMyBoots · 16/06/2025 23:54

Do you have any evidence that all the men ran for their lives, leaving the women to face the attack alone? What are you basing this on?

All I saw, all anyone watching the news saw - was a muslim woman sitting on a chair announcing something. I don't know what she said. She was completely taken aback and very frightened when the building caved in.

I was surprised there was a female announcer. When it was said that the Israelis had warned that the building was targeted the first thing I thought of was why was she there at all?

Let's face it: how many pregnant mothers were evacuated from the hospital in N Gaza when they were warned to?

TooBigForMyBoots · 17/06/2025 00:51

Iranian TV has female news announcers, Sahir Emami is one of their best known. You could hear the male crew members shouting in the background when it happened.

She was there because that's where she works. It is not evidence that men had fled leaving the women behind.

If that isn't proof that Islam hides behind their women, I don't know what is.

It certainly isn't proof and I'm a bit alarmed that you've let your prejudices run away with you to the extent that you see it as such.

ExitChasedByAPolarBear · 17/06/2025 08:29

AliasGrace47 · 16/06/2025 22:50

I have read accounts of Civilians trying to get to the Hamas food supplies & being shot. Gender not mentioned. Definitely it seems Hamas are using food control as a weapon.

@AliasGrace47 Was it proven that it was Hamas that did this or was it AlShabab?

From Gaza prisoner to ‘the Israeli agent’: how rise of Abu Shabab could ignite new phase of war

In email exchange, leader of clan that Israel acknowledges arming blames Hamas for war and for looting of aid trucks

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/10/abu-shabab-the-israeli-agent-gaza-war

llizzie · 17/06/2025 14:18

AliasGrace47 · 16/06/2025 22:50

I have read accounts of Civilians trying to get to the Hamas food supplies & being shot. Gender not mentioned. Definitely it seems Hamas are using food control as a weapon.

It has happened in the African countries under Islamic control or even not.

You won't hear the UN actually saying so, but they know.

llizzie · 17/06/2025 14:29

TooBigForMyBoots · 17/06/2025 00:51

Iranian TV has female news announcers, Sahir Emami is one of their best known. You could hear the male crew members shouting in the background when it happened.

She was there because that's where she works. It is not evidence that men had fled leaving the women behind.

If that isn't proof that Islam hides behind their women, I don't know what is.

It certainly isn't proof and I'm a bit alarmed that you've let your prejudices run away with you to the extent that you see it as such.

The war was four days old. Israel had been shelling for four days.

The roads leaving Tehran were choked with vehicles. Apparently it was taking hours to do a few mile trip.

Israel gave warning to evacuate.

By the fourth day if they had female newsreaders they should have sent them away. Just imagine the furore if it happened here: would the BBC get away with putting female announcers on the air knowing the place was about to be bombed?

Whatever happened to ''women and children first''?

There is no equality for women in Iran. They are completely subjected to male rule.

Islam considers women are unclean when they have their periods. Many refuse to employ women at all, because they think they go mad once a month. Do you think that? Do you think FGM is right?

Do you really think that Islam treats women well?

If you love your DH or DP you will do anything to please him, not to hurt them. Women have that choice in many countries: Islam imposes it, forces it.

llizzie · 17/06/2025 19:19

AliasGrace47 · 16/06/2025 22:48

I agree w a lot of what you say. Many men we know are in Hamas. But when you say every night the men are missing, that they are all well-fed & well-scrubbed and prioritising their food over their wives & kids, do you have evidence for this?

It is a good point that the famine is mostly affecting women. But is this really mainly bc the cruel husbands are being fed by Hamas at night while their starving wives are bombed? I know some men will be in Hamas.

But on the BBC I didn't think the Gazan men I saw looked particularly well-fed or clean.

This is an important question & needs to be dug into more by the press.

I definitely agree that Israel must vanquish Hamas ASAP. I do have ethical concerns about the Gazan women & children & non Hamas men. But it is v hard to know what is happening and whether any mitigation is possible. Many people, for instance, are refusing to leave as they fear they will not be allowed home. Complex, but ultimately no one should prioritise that over the lives of children who have no say.

I agree with so much of what you have written in response to me, and I thank you for it. I care deeply for those who are living in such conditions. All the UN does is separate themselves from conflicts by condemning them. Countries round the world also distance themselves. They know what is going on is wrong, but are too afraid to say so.

Hamas was the duly elected government, elected by the Palestinian people, but not all the Palestinian people. Those who didn't vote for them had the same fate as those who didn't vote for Assad, Putin, Erdogan et al. When the Taliban moved in, people fled to the airport, knowing what was in store for them. Remember the crowds in the hold of those big cargo planes?

We can only wait and see what happens in Syria. Lebanon was a lovely place before the rot set in.

Then Isis came to Iraq. Did Iraq ever recover from Saddam Hussein, who thought he would dine on Kuwait? A long time ago, yes, but the problems of then keep coming back.

Islamic leaders want two things - power, and an Islamic world. Each new group is more fundamentalist than the old. They come up with their own versions of Islam - stricter versions, where the laws and punishments are OTT. If they can persuade enough muslims that they are more sacred, more Islam, more holy, than what went before, they can establish a new Islam.

Some of these religious fanatics - like the cults in Christianity - make up their own kind of 'holiness' if you will. They are so far removed from the Islam the people have flowing through their DNA to be unrecognisable to the average person - until they are punished. Then they learn very fast.

I remember an interview on TV of muslim Russian mothers after ISIS was beaten (they are still active and attacked a concert hall in Moscow about 18 months ago). Those Russian mothers wanted their daughters back, and they were denied. They explained that they had sent their daughters to ISIS because they thought they would get the discipline of a strict muslim marriage. They said they had problems with their daughters being attracted to the western way of life, going to concerts, music, dancing, all things forbidden in Islam.

Girls were sent from other countries - even the UK - for the same reason. Remember Begum, now stateless?

We cannot afford the luxury of feeling sorry for them, just hope it never happens again.

The conflicts of this world are almost all Islam connected, and there are so many still active on the QT and not so QT.

The fanatical groups can be small cogs in a big wheel or large cogs in a wheel of their own making - small at first, then growing through fear. Death is the punishment for not being faithful, or taking on another faith.

There cannot be any religion or faith if it is forced on people. Faith is a one to one with God, in the heart, or not at all.

llizzie · 17/06/2025 19:34

AliasGrace47 · 16/06/2025 23:05

I think a major problem is that people need to recognise Hamas' deadly calculation. They have deliberately tried to raise the birthrate so that children can be used as human shields and propaganda tool. They are withholding the food.

All this is to make it look like Israel are evil and trying to kill children and starve innocent men & women out of sheer maleficence. Now, I do believe there are v disturbing attitudes among the further right of the cabinet. But overall, I believe that Israel is trying their hardest to ensure civilian safety. Harder than the US did in the horrific bombing of Hiroshima, and that was a less dire situation.

The starvation & bombing of millions in Gaza is a tragedy of epic proportions. I hate the dismissive attitudes of papers who defend I by necessity. It may be unavoidable, I'm not sure. I don't know enough. But the pain of the Civilians should never be waves away.

Hamas are essentially cult leaders. Happily orchestrating the death of millions of innocents for their evil fantasy of absolute power.

I'm not sure how the Civilians can be saved. If they refuse to leave.....

The fact is that Hamas could stop the war if they handed in their weapons and released the hostages.

Hamas knew that Israel would move on Gaza to recover the hostages. That is why they did it. They now blame the IDF for the deaths, and there is no doubt that there are many deaths, though Hamas probably includes those who die naturally. It is easy to enable an enemy to take over the killing off of the Palestinians who didn't vote for the Hamas government, which is now in hiding in Qatar.

Each Islamic extremist groups wants ultimate power, and we see that happening. There is another question: if enough countries, and organisations like the UN keep on long enough, will Israel have to stop and leave Hamas to rule the Palestinians again?

Hamas is financed with cryptocurrency by Iran, as is Hezbollah and the Youthis. that is common knowledge. The Houthis monitor the Red Sea and the Suez Canal, and across the world Hamas is too close for comfort to the Panama Canal, currently with low water levels.

Iran wants a Mediterranean port, and the rest of the Islamic countries won't allow that. Hamas doesn't give a monkey's about the Palestinians in Gaza, but few can see that. If Hamas is allowed to reign in Gaza it will be a tragedy for the world as well as the Palestinians. You only have to look at how the Palestinians are treated in Lebanon, where there have been refugee camps for almost 50 years. No other Middle East country will let them in.

OldJohn · 17/06/2025 19:43

AliasGrace47 · 16/06/2025 22:50

I have read accounts of Civilians trying to get to the Hamas food supplies & being shot. Gender not mentioned. Definitely it seems Hamas are using food control as a weapon.

I saw a photo of the bodies of five young men, late teens or early 20s. They were left lying whereHamas had shot them as they attempted to "Steal" food from a well stocked Hamas warehouse.

llizzie · 17/06/2025 23:01

This reply has been hidden

This reply has been hidden until the MNHQ team can have a look at it.

TooBigForMyBoots · 17/06/2025 23:16

Such a shame to see this thread tip into prejudice and Islamophobia.Sad

llizzie · 18/06/2025 02:58

TooBigForMyBoots · 17/06/2025 23:16

Such a shame to see this thread tip into prejudice and Islamophobia.Sad

Has it? I thought it was against terrorism.

llizzie · 18/06/2025 03:04

llizzie · 18/06/2025 02:58

Has it? I thought it was against terrorism.

I would say the same about any religion if it was terrorising people. A terrorist is someone who instils terror into another person or people.

We have women's rescue, a society which helps women terrified of their DHs, whatever creed and colour they are.

The fact that at the moment the worse terrorists happen to be Islamist is unfortunate for the people. Also, Hamas et al have sworn to 'kill all Jews, wherever they are in the world'. By their own admission they are terrorist.

I don't agree with Russian invasion of Ukraine. I think Putin is terrorising Ukrainians. Can you call a head of state a terrorist? I would say Stalin and Hitler were, after the fact.

llizzie · 18/06/2025 18:59

SpuytenDuyvil · 16/06/2025 23:18

Can I suggest this last part of this thread be moved to the CITME board? These posts have strayed pretty far from the original intent.

Edited

But that is how things pan out. Each of the conflicts and the characters involved are tied up with so much else.

No poster has strayed from the point, because it is all happening right now.

It is all part of what decisions Trump has made this time round, and how it is affecting the world.

It is no longer a 'popcorn' but something more serious. To dodge from thread to thread is very difficult when the news about the problems is unfolding daily.

Trump now has to decide whether to arm Israel with the latest weapons and send his own aircraft to Iran.

AliasGrace47 · 31/08/2025 13:30

llizzie · 18/06/2025 18:59

But that is how things pan out. Each of the conflicts and the characters involved are tied up with so much else.

No poster has strayed from the point, because it is all happening right now.

It is all part of what decisions Trump has made this time round, and how it is affecting the world.

It is no longer a 'popcorn' but something more serious. To dodge from thread to thread is very difficult when the news about the problems is unfolding daily.

Trump now has to decide whether to arm Israel with the latest weapons and send his own aircraft to Iran.

I know this thread has been dormant for a while. But the topic still feels current...

It's worth noting that Israel now says there is 'no proof Hamas routinely stole aid.' Frankly, I'm sceptical that aid was mostly safe- but if they didn't believe this, why say it?

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/26/world/middleeast/hamas-un-aid-theft.html#commentsContainer

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