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Lucy Connolly appeal rejected

247 replies

WitchesCauldron · 20/05/2025 14:50

Let me get out my tiny violin. Just because she's sorry now doesn't change the fact she's a racist who incited violence

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RoseAndGeranium · 20/05/2025 22:31

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 20/05/2025 22:08

I made no comment about the judges language regarding the 13 year old's willingness at all, so yes, it is an utterly bizarre conclusion for you to assert I approve of it, given you have no basis for that conclusion.

You are also omitting entirely the part whereby I've explained that since not only the judge, but all the mechanisms designed to respond to unduly lenient sentences also appear to have taken no issue with this sentence, then it seems reasonable to conclude that perhaps they are privvy to information you or I are not, and therefore you and I are probably not best placed to decide the judge has actually screwed this one up.

Again, perceptions and reality are not one and the same thing

Edited

We don’t know, either of us, if it went to a review, or if not, why not. So that’s just your perception. And I think the judge’s use of language about the 13 year old victim is fairly good evidence that he screwed up, or at least that his judgement was based on prejudicial views about 13 year old girls. Your repeated assertion that he was probably right does look like an endorsement of his reasoning.

bombastix · 20/05/2025 22:31

These are factors that apply to all defendants. Connolly was not special.

She painted herself into a terrible corner legally. If she said she didn’t mean it, it was an admission to guilt. If she admitted racial incitement, she would get a much tougher sentence again. If she didn’t admit and went to trial she would have faced an even worse sentence for even longer when convicted.

If Connolly had just been an ordinary woman who had a momentary lapse of reason as she claims now, she might have got a non custodial sentence assuming the judge used their discretion.

But she was not. Connolly had used x in the past to convey her dislike of immigrants. This went beyond an exchange of views. When inciting racial hatred, the law will look at the motivations of the offender. One way to establish that legally is to look at whether that person already had a history of similar views or a membership of a group thapromoted similar views. She did and was. Unambiguously because she had put it on the internet.

At a point of intense online speculation, she then posted incendiary views. She wished for deportation and arson resulting in death. Said in her kitchen, no one would have cared. It would have been her private if hateful view. But online, it broadcast itself over and over again.

Connolly deleted her tweet and said it was a mistake. But by then the damage was done: she had broadcast her view about violence on a minority group protected in law.

What did for Connolly was her reference to arson and burning migrants alive. That is not a political view. It is hatred. Had she stopped at deportation she might have had an argument it was a political view albeit an extreme one. But she did not do that. She admitted to an offence where your intention is explicitly considered and she provided the detail of burning. It is this that got her in prison. Sentence is according to harm done or intended. Her intentions were clear. She now claims otherwise, but she lied. The Court of Appeal are not fools.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 20/05/2025 22:56

RoseAndGeranium · 20/05/2025 22:31

We don’t know, either of us, if it went to a review, or if not, why not. So that’s just your perception. And I think the judge’s use of language about the 13 year old victim is fairly good evidence that he screwed up, or at least that his judgement was based on prejudicial views about 13 year old girls. Your repeated assertion that he was probably right does look like an endorsement of his reasoning.

I am not asserting the judge was "probably right", I'm highlighting the fact that all things considered, including that none of the mechanisms intended to deal with unduly light sentences have seemingly taken any issue with this sentence, then it's fair to conclude that you or I are not in a position to assert the sentence is categorically inappropriate.

Do I personally think it's alarming? Yes, of course I do. To see an offender receive a suspended sentence after having been convicted for an offence which normally carries a significant custodial sentence immediately raises eyebrows.

Given that there is no report anywhere on the net of AGO taking any interest in Rashid's sentence, or it being referred to ULS, then I think it's safe to conclude no such thing ever happened, and therefore there is more to this case than a judge simply handing down an inappropriate sentence due to incompetence. My point is, there are bodies who are in a far more privileged position than any member of the public with regard to insight into the particulars of this case, and given that none of them have apparently raised any concerns, far from being an "endorsement of his reasoning" my viewpoint is that both you and I have no grounds whatsoever for asserting we know better than the judge, AGO, and ULS.

prh47bridge · 20/05/2025 23:16

CosmicCuppa · 20/05/2025 16:48

Exactly this. You can plead not guilty and be held on remand.

You can, but it would be very surprising if Ricky Jones was remanded in custody for this offence. As far as we are aware, he has no previous convictions and has never failed to comply with bail conditions. He doesn't appear to be a flight risk and is unlikely to commit further offences whilst on bail. There is no reason to believe he will attempt to interfere with witnesses. Therefore, there is a strong presumption that he will be granted bail. This is a perfectly normal decision. Nothing to do with him being a Labour councillor (NOT an MP as someone said up thread). Lucy Connolly would also be out on bail if she had pleaded not guilty and was still waiting for her trial to take place.

RoseAndGeranium · 20/05/2025 23:37

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 20/05/2025 22:56

I am not asserting the judge was "probably right", I'm highlighting the fact that all things considered, including that none of the mechanisms intended to deal with unduly light sentences have seemingly taken any issue with this sentence, then it's fair to conclude that you or I are not in a position to assert the sentence is categorically inappropriate.

Do I personally think it's alarming? Yes, of course I do. To see an offender receive a suspended sentence after having been convicted for an offence which normally carries a significant custodial sentence immediately raises eyebrows.

Given that there is no report anywhere on the net of AGO taking any interest in Rashid's sentence, or it being referred to ULS, then I think it's safe to conclude no such thing ever happened, and therefore there is more to this case than a judge simply handing down an inappropriate sentence due to incompetence. My point is, there are bodies who are in a far more privileged position than any member of the public with regard to insight into the particulars of this case, and given that none of them have apparently raised any concerns, far from being an "endorsement of his reasoning" my viewpoint is that both you and I have no grounds whatsoever for asserting we know better than the judge, AGO, and ULS.

Broadly I agree with you. But I think trust in the police and the judiciary has fallen alarmingly and I can kind of see why. A lot of it is about perception, as you say, and some of that perception is distorted. But it won’t do simply to trust that where something looks wrong to us the issue is only ever with our limited field of vision and not the view itself. We live in a democracy and in order to exercise our democratic rights we need to form opinions based on our perception of the world around us. The more sinister point is that there is a growing perception that justice is ‘two tier’ and that tweets are policed more stringently than burglary or child sexual exploitation. That’s not a sign of a healthy society.

PhilippaGeorgiou · 21/05/2025 08:06

LizaRadleywasonthespectrum · 20/05/2025 18:27

The virtue signalling on this thread is sickening. Listen to yourselves. Some of you will be demanding blood next.

I think you have got confused. The person demanding blood was Lucy Connelly. That is why she is in prison.

PandoraSocks · 21/05/2025 08:53

PhilippaGeorgiou · 21/05/2025 08:06

I think you have got confused. The person demanding blood was Lucy Connelly. That is why she is in prison.

Excellent reply.

PandoraSocks · 21/05/2025 08:54

RoseAndGeranium · 20/05/2025 23:37

Broadly I agree with you. But I think trust in the police and the judiciary has fallen alarmingly and I can kind of see why. A lot of it is about perception, as you say, and some of that perception is distorted. But it won’t do simply to trust that where something looks wrong to us the issue is only ever with our limited field of vision and not the view itself. We live in a democracy and in order to exercise our democratic rights we need to form opinions based on our perception of the world around us. The more sinister point is that there is a growing perception that justice is ‘two tier’ and that tweets are policed more stringently than burglary or child sexual exploitation. That’s not a sign of a healthy society.

When do you think the "two tier" perception began and why?

prh47bridge · 21/05/2025 09:22

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 20/05/2025 22:56

I am not asserting the judge was "probably right", I'm highlighting the fact that all things considered, including that none of the mechanisms intended to deal with unduly light sentences have seemingly taken any issue with this sentence, then it's fair to conclude that you or I are not in a position to assert the sentence is categorically inappropriate.

Do I personally think it's alarming? Yes, of course I do. To see an offender receive a suspended sentence after having been convicted for an offence which normally carries a significant custodial sentence immediately raises eyebrows.

Given that there is no report anywhere on the net of AGO taking any interest in Rashid's sentence, or it being referred to ULS, then I think it's safe to conclude no such thing ever happened, and therefore there is more to this case than a judge simply handing down an inappropriate sentence due to incompetence. My point is, there are bodies who are in a far more privileged position than any member of the public with regard to insight into the particulars of this case, and given that none of them have apparently raised any concerns, far from being an "endorsement of his reasoning" my viewpoint is that both you and I have no grounds whatsoever for asserting we know better than the judge, AGO, and ULS.

In this case, a significant factor is that Rashid was 18 when sentenced. If he had been older, he would almost certainly have gone to prison instead of receiving a suspended sentence and a supervision order. However, for offenders of this age, judges are instructed that prison should be the last resort and should only be used where no other sentence is appropriate. I'm not saying the judge got this right but, given the current sentencing guidelines within which the judge must operate, the sentence isn't as surprising as some of the press coverage suggests.

EasternStandard · 21/05/2025 09:30

prh47bridge · 21/05/2025 09:22

In this case, a significant factor is that Rashid was 18 when sentenced. If he had been older, he would almost certainly have gone to prison instead of receiving a suspended sentence and a supervision order. However, for offenders of this age, judges are instructed that prison should be the last resort and should only be used where no other sentence is appropriate. I'm not saying the judge got this right but, given the current sentencing guidelines within which the judge must operate, the sentence isn't as surprising as some of the press coverage suggests.

@prh47bridgewhy do you think there could be a discrepancy between legal advice on guilty / not guilty for LC in contrast to the councillor?

PandoraSocks · 21/05/2025 09:40

Just a small observation. People need to be careful about discussing the case of the councillor as it is an active case. The CPS has said:

“We remind all concerned that criminal proceedings are active and that he has the right to a fair trial.

“It is extremely important that there should be no reporting, commentary, or sharing of information online which could in any way prejudice these proceedings.”

EasternStandard · 21/05/2025 09:48

I know @prh47bridgewill navigate the question as they can. No worries there.

prh47bridge · 21/05/2025 09:52

EasternStandard · 21/05/2025 09:30

@prh47bridgewhy do you think there could be a discrepancy between legal advice on guilty / not guilty for LC in contrast to the councillor?

We don't know that there was any discrepancy on legal advice. However, the charges are different.

Connolly was charged with inciting racial hatred. Given the content of her post and other previous posts, a guilty verdict was almost certain, so the sensible approach for her was to plead guilty to get a reduced sentence.

Jones is charged with encouraging violent disorder. The prosecution have to prove not only what he did and said, they have to convince the jury that he intended to incite violence. Jones may think he can persuade the jury that there is reasonable doubt over his intentions. However, if he fails, he will face a longer sentence than he would have received had he pleaded guilty. There have been some cases where people charged with this offence have been found not guilty after arguing that it was not their intent to incite violence (e.g. the "punch a terf" trans activist). It may be that his lawyer thinks he could run this defence and has advised a not guilty plea, but it could equally be that his lawyer has advised him to plead guilty but Jones is ignoring the advice.

EasternStandard · 21/05/2025 10:05

prh47bridge · 21/05/2025 09:52

We don't know that there was any discrepancy on legal advice. However, the charges are different.

Connolly was charged with inciting racial hatred. Given the content of her post and other previous posts, a guilty verdict was almost certain, so the sensible approach for her was to plead guilty to get a reduced sentence.

Jones is charged with encouraging violent disorder. The prosecution have to prove not only what he did and said, they have to convince the jury that he intended to incite violence. Jones may think he can persuade the jury that there is reasonable doubt over his intentions. However, if he fails, he will face a longer sentence than he would have received had he pleaded guilty. There have been some cases where people charged with this offence have been found not guilty after arguing that it was not their intent to incite violence (e.g. the "punch a terf" trans activist). It may be that his lawyer thinks he could run this defence and has advised a not guilty plea, but it could equally be that his lawyer has advised him to plead guilty but Jones is ignoring the advice.

Thanks. Now I’m intrigued by the punch a terf getting a not guilty and the role of the riots for LC. I’ll leave it for a bit as I’m sure there’s a load of stuff I could read and not able to atm.

derxa · 21/05/2025 11:48

Jeremy Corbyn has signed a letter calling for Lucy Connolly’s release.

PandoraSocks · 21/05/2025 11:49

derxa · 21/05/2025 11:48

Jeremy Corbyn has signed a letter calling for Lucy Connolly’s release.

Really? Complete release or leave to visit family?

Do you have a link please, @derxa ?

SerendipityJane · 21/05/2025 11:52

derxa · 21/05/2025 11:48

Jeremy Corbyn has signed a letter calling for Lucy Connolly’s release.

He's not always right about everything.

derxa · 21/05/2025 11:54

SerendipityJane · 21/05/2025 11:52

He's not always right about everything.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

PandoraSocks · 21/05/2025 11:56

I think @derxa is having us on. I can't find anything to confirm this.

derxa · 21/05/2025 11:59

PandoraSocks · 21/05/2025 11:49

Really? Complete release or leave to visit family?

Do you have a link please, @derxa ?

Edited

It’s parliamentary motion by erstwhile Reform MP Rupert Lowe saying that mothers like LC shouldn’t be in prison at all.

derxa · 21/05/2025 12:00

PandoraSocks · 21/05/2025 11:56

I think @derxa is having us on. I can't find anything to confirm this.

I’m not. Look up Rupert Lowe on Twitter.

SerendipityJane · 21/05/2025 12:02

derxa · 21/05/2025 12:00

I’m not. Look up Rupert Lowe on Twitter.

I'd really rather not.

derxa · 21/05/2025 12:03

SerendipityJane · 21/05/2025 12:02

I'd really rather not.

What do you think might happen to you.

PandoraSocks · 21/05/2025 12:05

Corbyn has withdrawn his signature. Here is a safe, non-Lowe link.

edm.parliament.uk/early-day-motion/63681/imprisonment-of-lucy-connolly

derxa · 21/05/2025 12:09

PandoraSocks · 21/05/2025 12:05

Corbyn has withdrawn his signature. Here is a safe, non-Lowe link.

edm.parliament.uk/early-day-motion/63681/imprisonment-of-lucy-connolly

A safe non Lowe link? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

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