50 women allegedly killed by men in UK so far in 2024

[EasterIssland]

The guardian has posted an article talking about the 50 women that have allegedly been killed by men in 2024

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2024/mar/08/killed-women-count-a-project-highlighting-the-toll-and-tragedy-of-violence-against-women-in-the-uk

im Spanish and I just checked how many have been killed this year :26.

RIP all of them. Wish sentences were more strict than what they are so men would think twice before killing anyone

I don't see that this is likely to change.
When I think about Sarah Everard - I don't think there has been any change.

We have to put the focus on the men, but I don't know to do that when most men don't care.

I have just been reading through this list and I was quite taken aback how many of them were past retirement age - I had naively thought that most women murdered by men were in their 20s and 30s and killed by a boyfriend or abusive husband aged 25-45 - but very clearly not!

Honestly I was expecting it to be higher

Me too

Why mention Sarah Everard? What is the difference between her and Suzy Lamplugh, Linda Mann or Dawn Ashworth, they are all sickening horrific murders committed by persons unknown to them so it is a different context to domestic violence that leads to murder, because the person committing the murder is known to the victim. Whether you like it or not there will always be sexual deviants who will prey on women who are strangers

Yes, the figures are shockingly high, but let's not forget the number of women who murder men each year. But before we go into no one has mentioned the root causes of Domestic Violence. As I said in another reply, don't confuse Domestic Violence (DV) which is between persons known to each other with murder committed by a stranger. Let's look at nature and nurture, nature is how DNA has wired you, nurture is what you learn growing up. I think most DV behaviour shown by men is nurtured by the environments they have grown up in, they have seen Dad using Mum as a punchbag, so they grow up thinking that is normal, and when they become men, they will think nothing of hitting a partner, and the cycle continues as the behaviour passes onto the next generation. I remember one incident locally where a couple were equally violent and well-known to have alcohol problems, they would get drunk, the rows started then the violence, and both were equally capable of hitting each other, on this occasion, the husband shoved his wife so hard she fell and hit her head on a stone fireplace. She died before an ambulance could get to her. The police were convinced they had him banged to rights for murder. When it came to his trial he was acquitted of murder because his defence could show that he didn't mean to do it as he didn't have a guilty mind (look up the definitions of actus rea and mens rea to understand this) and there was plenty of evidence that his deceased wife was equally violent towards him. The problem with the police is they are swamped by DV cases and this has been the case for decades. The problem is everything is listed as DV when most of it isn't, to put that into context the police will attend calls where one person is alleging DV is taking place when in fact all that has happened is there has been an argument taken place and one person has called the police in the hope they will take their side, there are no offences disclosed so the police can't really do much apart from give advice aka go and see a solicitor, but the majority of these people will still be together over the coming months, years even! Is this acceptable? No, because valuable police resources are being wasted sitting in living rooms listening to squabbles when they could be out dealing with real crime, and dare I say it dealing with real DV cases. The police aren't failable, far from it and I remember a shocking case where a stalker in Manchester was able to murder a former girlfriend by setting her house on fire on the second attempt, it seems GMP didn't take the first arson attack seriously! I also remember a DV case where the woman was battering her partner so badly that children's services got involved, they were told not to see each other but they continued because they stupidly thought they could outsmart the authorities and as soon as the social workers saw the bruises and black eyes on the male partner next time he was used as a punchbag they knew what had happened. The children were taken into care and were adopted, obviously as they were in danger of accepting that DV was normal.

Far more men are murdered each year than women.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1221306/homicides-in-england-and-wales-by-gender/#:~:text=Number%20of%20homicides%20in%20England%20and%20Wales%202010%2D2023%2C%20by%20gender&text=Of%20the%20590%20recorded%20homicides,of%20the%20victims%20were%20female.

The thing with DV is that often the perpetrator can be manipulative and kind after being physically / emotionally / verbally abusive that it’s forgiven but will inevitably happen again later on.

Yes there is DV against men from women, however, proportionally it is women that get murdered due to it. If you see a woman walking towards you late at night you typically don’t feel tense or cross the road to avoid them etc, so there is also the issue of normalised violence against women by strangers etc.

Some men lack the capacity to self regulate, I do think it’s a combination of nature and nurture in so far as there are men that are naturally more hot tempered and less able to control that than others and ultimately combined with growing up in households where it’s the norm for the man to be shouting / hitting etc then it becomes their norm.

I have had relationships with men who have found it okay to say vile things, threaten to “knock me out” or actually physically assault me and afterwards deem that to be okay because we have been arguing. I think it’s a developmental issue.

Yes… by other men as indicated in the statistics you are quoting “9 out 10 perpetrators being male”
What point are you trying to make?

Can you tell us how many men have been murdered by women in the UK this year?

Yes, by men. They're responsible for 9/10 homicides.

People were saying they were surprised that the number of murdered women was so low. I was just pointing out the actual historical numbers.

@Merlinonline

Yes, the figures are shockingly high, but let's not forget the number of women who murder men each year.

Men are responsible for 9/10 homicides. In the case of domestic abuse, the vast majority of murders by women are by the victim.

But before we go into no one has mentioned the root causes of Domestic Violence

The root cause of domestic abuse is misogyny. It's committed by men who hate women. Our society is patriarchal and men who want to retain power and control, abuse women.

Some men who have been brought up in abusive households go on to abuse, but what all men who abuse have in common is misogyny.

Men aren't born abusers, they are socialised to abuse.

Any number of murders is too high, but a number by itself doesn't tell us much. There will always be murders within households, and a few by strangers each year.

I don't doubt that the number of women killed is higher than men, but I'd be interested to see actual difference between female-on-male violence, and trends over time.

Isn't that what I said or did you just want to put an ideological spin on it to suit your narrative? No not all men, that is your mistake.

• The latest Office for National Statistics figures (2022/23) show that one in three victims of domestic abuse are male equating to 751,000 men (3.2%) and 1.38 million women (5.7%). From this, 483,000 men and 964,000 women are victims of partner abuse. (ONS 2022/23).
• One in seven men (13.9%) and one in four women (27%) will be a victim of domestic abuse in their lifetime (ONS figures 2022/23).
• Of domestic abuse crimes recorded by the police, 25% were committed against men (ManKind Initiative).
• Only 4.8% of victims of domestic abuse being supported by local domestic services are men according to SafeLives data. This highlights how few men are being supported for local domestic abuse services (ONS 2022/23).
• 58.9% of the men who call the ManKind Initiative helpline have never spoken to anyone before about the abuse they are suffering and 64% would not have called if the helpline was not anonymous (ManKind Initiative).
• As of 1 February 2024, there were 57 organisations with 410 refuge or safe accommodation spaces available for men (108 are dedicated to men and 302 for men or women). These figures are hugely skewed by one organisation with 46 dedicated spaces. If these were removed, the spaces would be 56 organisations with 359 places (64 dedicated). The median number per organisation is 5 spaces. (ManKind Initiative).
• 21% of male victims (2022/23) fail to tell anyone they are a victim of partner abuse – which is a big improvement as previously it was 49% in 2017/18. The figures for female victims are 18.2% (2022/23) and 19% (2017/18. (ONS 2022/23).
• 6.5% of male victims (2.8% of women) have considered taking their life due to partner abuse in 2022/23. The charity has seen an increase in calls regarding suicide ideation over the pandemic period and beyond. (ONS 2022/23).
• In 2022/23, 13 men died at the hands of their partner or ex-partner compared to 56 women. (ONS 2022/23).

No, this year because the figures are not available but the previous year are above. All murders are one to many!

Why can't we just ignore the "but women also kill" posts. All it does is derail the discussion.

But yes, I also thought it would be higher

Abusers are socialised. They grow up with loud, shouting, physically aggressive parenting. They are hit, shoved and beaten as children. But the sex you are is going to make a big difference to the outcome of that when yo are an adult.

Men are much stronger than women. A punch or a blow can kill if delivered with enough force. That is how women and children die.

A woman can’t kill a man with her bare hands; she needs a weapon to stand any chance of that. And women aren’t socialised to use violence but more often be the recipient of it.

I can't say I've seen that sentiment.

We do need to know how often men are killed by women. Statistics are meaningless without any context. How do we know if 50 is high or low, or if murders of women are increasing or decreasing if we fixate on a single figure?

If you are a man and your response to a thread about women killed by men is to post about how many men are killed or that women (rarely?) kill men, then you are part of the problem of VAWG not being taken seriously enough.

Wrong! Do you know the damage a female kickboxer can do to a male who isn't trained and won't resist? No thought not!

Are you trying to say that females are incapable of shouting and screaming rants before launching into violence? Because that is not true. You want to be woken up in the small hours by the neighbourhood looney who is full-on shouting, ranting, and screaming before launching a violent attack on her partner and this was a regular occurrence!

Again there is too much ideology in this thread with generalisations

Yes, you're right.

I was also struck by the number of older women on the Guardian's list. This kind of murder seems to be minimally reported in the media. And in some cases killed not by their husband but by another male relative (son, etc).

Do not be disengenous. We are talking about domestic violence. The circumstances you describe would be rare.

A man is much more powerful than a woman in terms of physical strength. To kill or at least to inflict grevious bodily harm at this risk level will need a weapon.

This is how woman die in their homes, and their children.

@Merlinonline

No, that isn't what you said which is why I contradicted you.

Addressing some of your points:

The reason there are so many more refuges for women is first, men are stronger than women and are more capable of hurting them. Refuges started because women had nowhere to go when they were being beaten by their husbands.

Second, women are more likely to be financially disadvantaged than men. Financial abuse is common in DV and women who are caring for children full time, may not have the resources to rent somewhere else.

Women campaigned for and set up refuges. I'm sure if male victims of domestic abuse wanted to, they could set them up.

• In 2022/23, 13 men died at the hands of their partner or ex-partner compared to 56 women. (ONS 2022/23).

How many of those men were killed by a male partner and how many were killed by a victim of domestic abuse?

Your statistics don't make clear how much of the abuse recorded by men was violent. Abuse covers a whole spectrum of behaviour, not all of it is homicidal. We're discussing the murder of women by men.

Perhaps you should start a new thread about violence towards men by women instead of hijacking this one?