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Duncan Fisher: Stop ignoring fathers when babies are born

271 replies

Tom · 14/04/2008 09:53

The Independent. Monday, 14 April 2008

The only time that attention to fathers is really exercised is when a father is violent.

Consider the new mother who has just had a Caesarean. She needs help to pick up and settle the baby, on a ward where the midwives are overstretched. Or consider the new mother who cannot walk and whose baby is on the special care baby unit, two wards away. She needs the baby's father to help her speedily transfer expressed milk to the newborn ? but he has access only during "visiting hours".

In the NHS you are either a "patient" or a "visitor". And 30 years after it became normal for a father to attend baby's birth, there are still no formal NHS-wide standards for what he needs to know. Nor is there any formal guidance on how he can provide extra support to a mother who is sick or incapacitated after the birth.

Perhaps the ultimate expression of the "nanny state" is when a couple have just had a baby and ? at this heightened family experience ? the hospital says "now you have to part company ? dad, go home". Setting aside any opinions about the father's right to stay with his family, regularly excluding fathers from maternity services in this, and many other ways, has a detrimental effect on mothers and babies.

The NHS does not even have a system of formally registering who the father is, let alone formally assessing his own needs ? does he smoke? Does he know how to support breastfeeding? When my two children were born, my partner was asked only one question about me ? does he have any genetic abnormalities in his family? I was not even asked my name. And yet research shows that, when it comes to the health of mother and baby ? smoking, breastfeeding, depression ? I am the biggest influence. I am uniquely able to support her and my baby and I am uniquely able to screw them both up. Despite the enlightened work of countless midwives and birthing units who genuinely see that a birth is a family event that needs as light a touch as possible from professionals, the NHS continues to commission a system designed for the 1950s. Every maternity unit is filled with fathers ? well over 90 per cent are involved at some point before, during or after the birth. And yet, high-level policy debates in the NHS can continue for hours as if men simply did not exist.

The only time that attention to fathers is really exercised is when a father is violent. A focus on violence is absolutely right, but what if as much energy was expended on mobilising the positive support that the vast majority of fathers provide, or could provide, to mother and baby?

Firstly, fathers would be registered into maternity services and formally engaged with. The failure of a father to show up would result in an enquiry ? no compulsion, just an informed conversation with the mother about what she wants and what is best for baby when it comes to making sure the father is informed and positively engaged.

All health information would be routinely communicated to both parents ? breastfeeding, smoking, mental health, vaccinations. Mother-only provision should always be available but as special provision for special needs, not the default. And if the father is a source of problems, it is no good the NHS just walking away from it ? that won't stop him causing problems the moment the baby is back at home. Fathers in this situation should be treated exactly as mothers in the same situation: extra engagement, not less.

At the heart of the problem is still the cultural expectation that babies are mum's business only. As one young black father said to a government group on children's services recently: "It is too easy for young dads to walk away from their responsibilities."

What happens when a father does not engage? Absolutely nothing. The moral panic only sets in later when the same father fails to pay child support ? then suddenly he is reclassified from a "nobody" to a "feckless father". In the US, where they trialled a simple process of midwives talking to young fathers when they visited their partners, child support payments went up.

Things have to change. When a baby is born, fathers are as responsible for the little one as mothers are. At every point in the process, an expectation of his full involvement should be communicated to both parents.

And this new vision needs to extend far beyond maternity services. Employers still expect that only women, and not men, will compromise work for caring responsibilities. The Government has just introduced a system where fathers get two weeks and mothers get 52 weeks ? the biggest difference in leave entitlement of any country in the world. If we keep going backwards: fathers will be excluded more and mothers will pay a heavier price for being left alone on the high throne of motherhood.

The writer is the chief executive of the Fatherhood Institute.

OP posts:
Highlander · 14/04/2008 11:33

HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!!!

The whole 'visiting hours' thing for dads enrages me.

DS1 (born in Canada) - DH was fully expected to be around to care for his son.

DS2 - visiting hours. Apalling

Rolypole · 14/04/2008 11:40

Oh I SO agree. My husband was sent home when our baby was two hours old and I couldn't stand up. My friend had a CS in Shanghai and her husband stayed in hospital all week until they all went home together. Caring involved fatherhood should be expected as normal.

edam · 14/04/2008 11:41

Agree with some of the points esp. about provision for fathers to stay after the birth (but has to be done in a way that doesn't impose on other women). But overall the article does carry overtones of 'me, me, me'. It is women who have babies. The idea that we should be cross-questioned if we turn up for antenatal appointments alone, or that single mothers should be treated as 'special needs' is insulting and patronising.

And he seems to sweep domestic violence aside. Actually pregnancy is one of the key times at which men start hitting women - so women-only appointments are a good thing and harassing women who turn up alone is not.

oiFoiF · 14/04/2008 11:43

Im not sure I would have wanted men about in the maternity ward tbh. Its bad enough having c section and having to go back to a ward of mobile, bottlefeeding women and their families at visiting times without having them there all day

Blandmum · 14/04/2008 11:45

While I would have likely my dh to be there, I'm not so sure that I would have wanted to be staggering to the loo, walking like Groucho Marx, bleeding like a stuck pig with other people's dp/h's around.

Rolypole · 14/04/2008 11:48

And I guess the dad being in the maternity ward only applies to first children anyway. Agree with edam that it's intrusive to demand fathers come to ante natal appointments etc. But I do so wish it was more normal to share baby and child care (declares interest as wants to go back to work without leaving baby in childcare but that's another thread...)

MissingMyHeels · 14/04/2008 11:48

"well over 90 per cent are involved at some point before, during or after the birth"

100% are involved at some point before the birth

I agree, my local hospital were great when my DD was transferred to a different hospital SCBU they let my partner stay overnight in my private room as I was devastated at having my baby taken away. Then when she was due to be discharged we were both allowed to sleep in a transition room with her.

I couldn't imagine what it would have been like without him tbh and think all women deserve the full support of a partner (be it the father or a close friend/parent etc). Not really feasible though.

TigerFeet · 14/04/2008 11:50

There was a thread in a similar vein last week - the majority verdict (with which I agreed) was that many women do not want maternity wards full to bursting because other people's partners are there 24/7

Whilst I agree that there are many circumstances under which a partner ought to be allowed to stay, it's impractical as things stand at the moment.

Women who have had a c/s or a traumatic birth ought to have the support of their partner as much as possible but imo this would only work if they had their own room. On a multiple occupancy ward there isn't the space or the privacy for this to happen.

Rolypole · 14/04/2008 11:51

What were visiting hours like at your hospitals then? Ours were 8 til 8 or something so there were loads of blokes and other children running about. I was too shell shocked to notice. I would really have like to spend a bit longer together after the baby was born, poor bloke just got booted out (she was born after visiting hours, y'see)

oiFoiF · 14/04/2008 11:53

ours were 8-8 and i think its long enough

SueW · 14/04/2008 11:55

Link to thread from last week

Tigerschick · 14/04/2008 12:03

In case anyone is interested, they are discussing this on Jeremy Vine on Radio 2 in about half an hour.

Blandmum · 14/04/2008 12:36

When I was in with dd there was a woman in the unit who had a huge family who were basically there all day, 8-8. Kids were running up and down the ward, rolling on the floor fighting etc. There was zero chance of getting any rest at any point in the day. (and given I'd had a section I was going to be in there for a few days)

the thought of her having had her dp/h with her all night as well would have been too ghastly for words

Graciefer · 14/04/2008 12:54

I can't agree with this enough, the way my local NHS hospital treated my DH when DS2 was being born was a disgrace.

I came into full labour very quickly and DS2 was decelling, so the labour had to be forced rushed with a doctor dialating me the last 2/3 cm.

DS2 was then delivered and quickly placed in the resuscitator under the heat lamp, DH saw the midwife point something out to the doctor but when he asked what they were looking at they dismissed it as nothing.

At this point I was bleeding badly and they were administering the drugs to help the placenta detach. DH picked up our lovely DS2 for the first time and immediately realised that he had down syndrome and something wrong with his legs, again none of the staff mentioned anything.

So there he was holding DS2, me bleeding everywhere and confused to what is happening and him in shock wondering how he was going to tell me that our new son had ds.

He couldn't really get near me to show me our new son, until around 10 minutes later when the staff gave us some room, as soon as I set my eyes on our DS2 I said he looked like he had ds, it was only then that the midwife said 'I'm glad you said that, I wasn't sure how to tell you.'.

DH apologised for not telling me sooner, but I knew it had been impossible before and he assured me everything would be ok.

My blood pressure then plummeted, through the blood loss and the doctor tried helping the placenta detach without success, by now the whole room looked like something out of a horror movie. Within minutes the room was full of people and I was rushed off to the operating theatre for them to preform a manual placenta removal.

Nobody took the time to explain to DH exactly what was happening, infact it was hardly acknowledged he was there, the trainee midwife and the midwife just concentrated on what seemed to be them taking notes from the computer and putting them onto paper, without saying anything to DH. 15 minutes after I was wheeled out he said the midwifes had left and he was sat in this room with DS2 in his arms whilst a cleaner was mopping up all the blood around his feet, he says it was one of the most surreal moments of his life.

An hour after I had been taken to theatre he was still sat in this empty room and not one person had been to tell him what was happening or how I was, not to be melodramtic about it but he said he was sat there, shell shocked about the down syndrome and wondering how they were going to cope on their own (DS1 is 5 and profoundly autistic), he honestly thought I was dead.

20 minutes later the registar came and verbally confirmed that she was 99% positive that DS2 did indeed have down syndrome and bi-lateral talipes, but they would have to do some blood tests later to confirm it. The registar couldn't tell him how I was as she didn't know.

Another 10 minutes later the trainee midwife, who had been assisting the delivery came to the room and said that DH had to come with her and take DS2 to the transitional care ward. DH refused to go anywhere until someone found out what was happening with me, she went off to check.

I was in recovery and DH was allowed to see me briefly before having to go to transitional care ward. It had been an hour and a half since I was wheeled off, the placenta removal had only took a fraction of this time, but no one thought that DH might like to know that I was ok

I joined DH in the transitional care ward around 20 minutes later, we were allowed 20 minutes together before DH was asked to leave!

Now although we have both lived in the 'world' of special needs for quite a while now, we were still a bit shocked and this was the time that we really needed each other most, however our emotional needs obviously weren't important.

DH couldn't see either of us until late moring the next day when visiting hours began and had to stick to the visiting hours for the following week that we spent in there.

Because DS2 had down syndrome and bi-lateral talipes he had to have several tests, heart scans, renal scans, physio assessment and what seemed like a million blood tests, some of which DH had to miss because of the visiting hours.

During this week, DH was hardly asked his name, let alone had things discussed with him, his opinion asked for or dare I say it, support offered.

I think it is an absolute disgrace that in this day and age of equality of opportunity and anti-discrimination practice that the NHS (or at the very least, my hospital) could treat my DH and men in general which such disregard.

The sooner we accept that men can indeed play an important role in delivery and beyond, the better.

As a side note, the delivery of DS1 was no better with DH being sent home as I 'wasn't going to give birth for hours', only for me to almost immediately go into full blown labour.

As soon as he got home there was a message on the answering maching for him to come back, but by then I wasn't at all with it because of the gas and air. I know if DH was with me from the start, he would of helped me regulate the amount of gas and air a lot better, like he did with DS2's delivery.

I can hardly remember anything about the delivery of DS1 and that really upsets me.

DS1 was also born at night and DH was sent home with 10 minutes of me being placed on the maternity ward that time, luckily I only had to spend a couple of days in hospital with DS1.

However DH does feel that he missed out on a lot with DS1 but the restaining visiting hours keeping us apart, the first few days to bond with your child really are the most important, both for mother and father.

Unfortunately, because of the complications with DS2's birth, we have to have hospital births for all future deliverys, I just hope that by the next time we have to use the materity ward at my local hospital, it will have stopped being the medical version of 'ashes to ashes'.

Graciefer · 14/04/2008 12:55

Oh my gosh, I didn't realise I had waffled that long.

Sorry about that and congratulations if you managed to read it all

Monkeytrousers · 14/04/2008 13:06

"The NHS does not even have a system of formally registering who the father is, let alone formally assessing his own needs ? does he smoke? Does he know how to support breastfeeding? When my two children were born, my partner was asked only one question about me ? does he have any genetic abnormalities in his family? I was not even asked my name."

erm, yes they do - they are called pre-natal classes you berk

Tom · 14/04/2008 13:13

Monkeytrousers:
Pre-natal classes do not:

  • Register the father
  • Assess his needs
  • Ask if he smokes (or has any other high risk health behaviours that might affect the mother's or infant's health)
  • look at how dads can support breastfeeding

You might get asked if you've got any genetic issues at the booking in appointment, but none of these things are covered in ante natal classes (which are being cut all over the country)

OP posts:
Ineedacleaner · 14/04/2008 13:21

I have to say that in my local hospital I have had good and bad times. When I was pg with dd I had a bleed at 20 weeks, I was shoved on the maternity ward and dp sent home. One midwife was particulalry horrid about my bleeding and I was left their on my own from around tea time until the next morning when I was scanned which dp did come up for.

When I went into have dd and ds I had a great experience of an NHS hospital birth both times. In my hospital babies born in the middle of the night wherever possible you stay in labour suite until a suitable time in the morning that you and your partner will not disturb the other mums, obviously there are times when it is really busy and this can't happen. Partners don't have to stick to visiting times they can come in after breakfast and are not kicked out until sfter late visiting when it is getting on and close to bedtime anyway. The ward was never full of men all day as most continued going to work until mum and baby got home but the option was always there for them.

If a woman has a cs or other needs that mean she may be immobile or need extra help they are given priority over single rooms so that their partner or the grandparents or whoever can spend as much time their as mum needs. In these cases (although I am sure it must happen sometimes) I have never known anyone NOT to get a single room they seem to have plenty. (except if you are bleeding at 20 weeks and really upset and alone obviously )

TigerFeet · 14/04/2008 13:24

My dh...

  • was asked his name, which was on my notes
  • was asked if he smoked
  • attended all antenatal appts and antenatal classes
  • was involved in our decision to BF and how to access support

I have to say that I never felt he was excluded in any part of our antenatal care.

Monkeytrousers · 14/04/2008 13:33

Oh god, a jeremy vine discussion - guarenteed to get to the nub

misdee · 14/04/2008 13:34

dh didnt attend any of dd3 checks before birth, he didnt attend hospital appointments with me, but yes i was a 'special case' as my dh was seriously ill with end stage heart failure. this time he may attend scans with me, but all the other appointments will probably be done alone. i dont need him there to hold my hand when i have bloods done, i dont need him to see me have my blood pressure taken. i dont attend every heart appointment with him, its just not nesscessary. plus we have 3 other children who need care as well.

i dont need dh there with me after birth, all i'll be doing is sleeping and feeding the baby. he cant breastfeed for me. even when dd3 was in SCBU, he needed to be at home with our other children, as they were so confused already as daddy had just come out of hospital 2 days earlier.

i dont want to be sharing a ward with 6women, their partners and babies. its noisey enough as it is.

visiting hours are 8-8, thats enough for me.

Monkeytrousers · 14/04/2008 13:36

Mine neither Tiger.

I don't know how to take this actually. Is is just another attempt at a power grab, a disliking for not being out first, or is it out of a genuine concern for maternity services?

Should more resources be spent on chasing up details dads could give freely is they wanted to or do dad's who want to be more involved and pro-active (as DP did) just do it anyway without being asked - and weren't excluded therefore?

cordulegaster · 14/04/2008 13:36

I'm split here. We also felt that very little notice was taken of dp during all the NHS pregnancy stuff. (We went to NCT ante-natal classes).

I've since found out that one of the best pro-breastfeeding things you can do is have a supportive partner and dp has been great for that. So they are much more important than either of us realised at the time.

BUT - Visiting hours were long, and I appreciated them, lovely to see dp and be able to go the loo, shower etc while he held dd. But another girl there had her partner there a lot more - he was cooking for her and tbh I found that difficult at first - especially the first day - I just wanted to tell him to get out. It was a pain to draw curtains for privacy, wouldn't have bothered if he hadn;t been there. I did get to know them both and like them.

So I think the main thing is - yes, please encourage dads to be more involved, and that means take more notice of them during the "official" bits of the process. BUT FGS re-design the wards so that your support and help doesn't become someone else's cause of embarrassment and distress at a difficult time.

Monkeytrousers · 14/04/2008 13:37

...a disliking for not being put first..

nedmum · 14/04/2008 13:40

DH didn't attend routine checks with me, as I couldn't see the point of him watching me have blood pressure taken etc, but came to all scans and to all ante-natal classes, even though he hated them (as did I). He was also consulted and encouraged to have a chat at my booking-in. So, the stuff outside the actual giving birth, we felt he was as involved as he wanted to be (in a good way).
But, having given birth outside visiting hours, he was chucked out fairly soon, and I remember it being one of the loneliest times of my life - left with a very loud, very angry baby, who I didn't have a clue what to do with, while all the other babies were sleeping peacefully. And there were no single rooms available

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