Abandoned baby Elsa is third newborn to be deserted by same parents

[SerendipityJane]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5115e7k2eno

Pardon my ignorance, I could be wrong, but isn't it because abortion was less accessible (and is now mostly illegal) in Indiana?

Abortion has been banned since 2023 in Indiana (with some exceptions).

The vast majority of the state's 123 baby boxes were installed well before the ban went into effect.

The state I live in is a very 'blue' state, always returns two Democratic senators to Congress, and abortion will never be made illegal here. In fact, many women cross state lines for abortions here since neighbouring states have banned it or restricted access. The state still has lots of baby boxes. They are installed under the private initiative of individual municipalities.

There is one militant/ unhinged website that I am aware of that is devoted to the outlawing of baby boxes on grounds that those who support the boxes are a bunch of rabid pro-lifers who want to get abortion banned everywhere.

Most cities/ towns installing the baby boxes in my state are aware of the number of abandoned babies found in the state's biggest city annually. This city has resisted the boxes for some reason, and the (blue) state law asks that the mother hand over the baby in person, with obvious drawbacks wrt anonymity. Mothers who are in this situation are usually afraid of the news of a baby's birth getting out. There can be very difficult family circumstances, cultural disapproval, etc, and many pregnancies are hidden, with the mothers determined to keep it that way.

Fire departments and police in the US are employed by and paid by individual municipalities, so they have this leeway in an incorporated area (village/town/city) to determine their own approach regardless of the state law. Police and firemen have no desire to find dead babies on their shift.

https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/illinois-indiana-baby-surrender-options

Well this baby was picked up quickly, has had medical care and if the woman came forward and could demonstrate she could provide a good home would presumably have a reasonable case for getting the baby back. I don't see how having a 'baby box' would improve things?

As you can see in the links I posted, there is information about accessing services posted on the exterior of the boxes, posted in both Spanish and English.

In East London, where these babies were found, the information would have to be in multiple languages.

If it was an abusive man abandoning the baby, he may choose not to use a baby box or hatch even if they existed for fear that they were being monitored.

Yeah right 🙄

Everyone is assuming this ‘couple’ don’t have any other children. What if they do? What if he keeps her permanently pregnant but gets rid of one of them every now and then? It’s a strange, sad case whatever the situation and I hope the police can trace the biological parents by dna before any other babies are abandoned 😢

Sadly I doubt if a woman who has given birth to three abandoned babies, whatever the reason for abandonment , would ever be considered to have a reasonable case for getting a child returned.

Same in the US, despite what you may have been told. There is an extensive free healthcare system, and public schools have social workers and other staff employed to help students facing difficulties. As well as all that, all 50 states have no questions asked/ help and support offered surrender laws in place.

There are still populations that are hard to reach, though, and mothers desperate to keep their babies a complete secret.

Yes, whoever the mother of 'Elsa' is, she is very likely unreachable. But the fact that this is likely the case isn't an argument against baby boxes. This mother isn't the only potential user of a service like this.

Well yes.

That wouldn't be a problem, surely?

Children’s services were against this info being released according to the report, it was because the Press applied to the judge after being granted more access to the Family Court:

“The reporting of the sibling link was not supported by the local authority and England's Children and Family Court Advisory and Support Service (Cafcass), which advises courts about children's best interests.

The Met Police said it was up to the court to determine whether the link between the children should be reported, but they told the court they did not wish to “inadvertently promote or encourage struggling mothers to abandon unwanted babies in public spaces””

“East London Family Court is taking part in a transparency pilot, which has been extended to cover almost half the family courts in England and Wales. This makes it easier for the BBC and other journalists to report cases.”

”The BBC and PA Media argued in court that it was a matter of public interest that the three children had been abandoned at birth by the same parents.”

@mathanxiety
It is estimated that 4,500 babies have been left in safe haven boxes around the US since they were first installed around the millennium.

That speaks volumes about the gulf between the US and the UK where mother and child welfare support is concerned. Not to mention contraception and abortion availability. There is no need for 'abandoned baby facilities' here as abandoning babies isn't a thing. It happens, but rarely.
Such a facility may also actually encourage more abandonment - much easier than going through legal channels if abandonment is state sanctioned.

It's not perfect here but universal,free peri-natal healthcare (and any other healthcare) and welfare services mean that only very unusual circumstances would lead to abandoning a child. And this case is extremely unusual.

I think the judge was wrong to make this case public. It is very likely that whoever is dropping these babies off will kill and bury the next babies as a result of the publicity.

Most of those women could access services, why would a homeless person be more likely to leave a baby in a bag in freezing temperatures?

I am glad there is a thread on this, it’s very disturbing. I kept thinking of the book Room, if anybody has read it.

I don’t think it was wrong to make the information public. The woman does need to be found.

It doesn't bespeak the gulf you are assuming.

The US has a population of 350+ million, with huge immigrant populations, many from cultures where pregnancy outside of marriage isn't acceptable at all. Sadly, many of the mothers of babies abandoned to freeze or starve to death come from these populations, who are very hard to reach. Extremely patriarchal cultures exist in the UK too, as can be seen when young women are murdered in so-called honour killings, or sent to a "homeland" to be married off, or have their genitals mutilated. The persistence of these practices is an example of how hard it is to reach and effect change in some cultures. Language is not the only barrier.

Contrary to popular belief, there is free medical healthcare available to mothers and babies, under the umbrella of Medicaid, in all states. In addition, public schools tend to be well staffed with social workers and student support personnel.

The stats about the 4,500 babies surrendered date from 1999. That is out of a population of over 350 million over 25 years.

The UK has no idea how many babies are actually abandoned. No country has, in truth, because anyone determined enough to hide a pregnancy and birth might also be able to find a way to dispose of a baby. The low number found might not be the actual number, sadly.

@mathanxiety How would an abandoned baby facility ensure a baby was abandoned with the mother's consent?
If such a thing existed in this situation it might actually have prevented any concern or investigations into the mother's safety or the children's origins.

I'd also think it highly unlikely likely that the perpetrator of abuse that is likely to have removed these babies and left them in carrier bags would have used this service.

@mathanxiety sorry just read your latest post , I do agree re the numbers of babies being concealed and disposed of being an unknown quantity and probably not as uncommon as anyone would like to think.
Regardless I hope this mother is found and given help.

I remember the Austrian who kept his daughter prisoner under the family home and took some of the surviving babies he fathered on her, and left others imprisoned with her. I hope they find some way of discovering what's happening.

You really have no idea. I have assisted trafficked women in a professional capacity. Their ability to make decisions, seek help, and rationalise is normally eroded to such a degree that their abuser becomes their only 'friend'.

And when 'putting your foot down' will end in death what do you do?

Your comments are naive and frankly offensive.

I wondered a lot about this too, is it a sex worker , a woman being exploited, a teenager or even incest? It may not be as dramatic as that, very likely now that is it someone being exploited or a missing person isn’t it? I would assume police would have tested dna for missing woman already but of course it could be an undocumented woman. You would think if it was an addict or homeless person they would be under some sort of social care who would have noticed them pregnant. There’s also a big gap between the north at 2019 and 2023, where where we’re they those times? It was the pandemic most of them years so maybe that could explain the gap in some ways.

Did police not realise the birth in 2017 and 2019 were related until now? They could have started looking into this back then surely?

I had wondered if it had been released to flush someone out as in authorities have suspicions and are hoping someone in the community will reach out. But reading it sounds like it was an application by press for reporting restrictions lifting not a request by those involved in the care of the little girl.

@IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowItHaveAGin I'm sorry, I think you were being ironic 🫢

It's curious though - the three babies were not killed and disposed of, as sometimes happens; but they were left in very precarious situations.

Baby Elsa was left on the coldest night of the year, outdoors, wrapped in a towel in a bag - she could so easily not been found on time.

So the parents don't want them dead, but don't seem to have the capacity to leave them somewhere safer. But then, they were found, thank goodness.

@IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowItHaveAGin are you serious? A woman abused could be threatened with weapons, they could threaten and kill her family members if she attemp t’s to leave, she could be undocumented and scared to go to the police due to fear of deportation. How does she put her foot down if she’s been held somewhere by force? You need to educate yourself, you sound really naive, are you very young? Read up on sex trafficking, coercive control etc before you embarrass yourself further.

Friends of ours found themselves in this situation. Adopted DS, then were told DS had a new brother and would they consider adopting him too. They did and they’re delighted to have them both, but my friend did say she hopes the birth parents don’t have any more as they hadn’t planned on three and would struggle with that decision. I can’t imagine having to make that choice, but it’s good that the authorities will try to keep the siblings in touch in this case. Heartbreaking all round.

I wonder if they are fully related or half siblings, that would be more telling.