Abandoned baby Elsa is third newborn to be deserted by same parents

[SerendipityJane]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5115e7k2eno

Roman was named as she was found near Roman Road. I assume Elsa because it was winter, it was cold, and she was probably very cold ie Frozen. Not sure about Harry, maybe after the person who found him? They aren't the names they have been given either, they were just names until they were adopted or fostered.

You don’t know these kids specific heritage, and likely neither did the rescuers who had to name quickly. No one should make cultural heritage assumptions based on skin colour.

whats jarring is not the names, but that three times a couple have had a baby, that we know of, and three times abandoned that little baby,

none of the rescuers or carers have done anything wrong here, and no one should be finding ways to attack them,

@EvangelicalAboutButteredToast

The initial names given are simply for staff at the hospital and social services to identify them (rather than baby a) whilst they seek the mother, when they are declared foundlings so put up for adoption, they are given birth certificates using that name and a given surname which are changed on adoption. They do not know the heritage at the point the initial name is given, genetic testing can take a while.

It's incredibly sad all around but being politically correct about an initial name is not a concern. It's always hoped they will locate the mother. I just wish those mothers who don't feel they can raise their children would feel that they could come to the hospital in labour then be allowed to sign their baby over anonymously if that's their desire, unfortunately most fear authorities

I can't believe in this situation of, what is highly likely to be, abuse, the main priority of pp is to have a whinge about the name of the babies ffs.

I can well imagine how this can happen, I was in an abusive situation, and had 5 dc, one of my dc died, but, when I came out of the situation, lots of people didn't realise how many dc I had, hadn't seen me pregnant, weren't aware my dd had died etc.

When you're in a situation, with someone who wants to keep you pregnant and beholden to them, it's bloody hard, and they isolate you so nobody knows what's going on too.

I eventually realised and got the support to get out, however I could so easily still have been in that situation and still having babies, its not an easy thing to escape, I imagine moreso if your babies have been left outside like that and someone is telling you how much trouble you'll be in for coming forward.

I feel for the mother here and I really hope she gets the support she needs.

I hope she's not being held in a basement somewhere... this is so upsetting

Just so terribly sad all round. I hope the babies can find strength in one another as they grow up, and that one day they get the answers they need and deserve. And I hope the parents are ok, or brought to justice if needs be.

photosdilemma ."In this age of avaliability and contraception there really is no excuse" is a little harsh .Maybe the couple have special needs ,could be brother and sister ,The poor woman being abused or they are homeless /on the run .We just dont know . Sure Contraception is the best choice for people in ideal circumstances.These seem far from that!

This mother was told to leave the baby at an ambulance/fire/police station. All 999 services were asked to look out for this at stations both in London and surrounding areas. They chose not to.

This mother was told to leave the baby at an ambulance/fire/police station. All 999 services were asked to look out for this at stations both in London and surrounding areas. They chose not to

The mother was told no such thing as the authorities didn't know in advance that the baby was going to be abandoned.

It is far more likely for someone who is a victim of abuse and possibly being hidden/confined to conceal the pregnancies. A woman struggling with alcohol or learning difficulties is far less likely to be able to conceal a pregancy, let alone three. Same for a homeless person.

OK. So I didn't receive that message on our info systems... You know best!

When I heard that on the news today my first thought was the mother is trapped somewhere and the father is abandoning them, just like Elisabeth Fritzl.

Someone, somewhere must be thinking the same and trying to actively find her, hopefully.

It is also possible that it is the male in the ‘relationship’ who is abandoning the babies.

Why can't we have a system like the US?

'Safe haven laws allow parents of a child, typically a newborn child but age can vary, to abandon the child at a place of local authority such as a hospital, fire station, or police station with no further question. Some states allow the parent to reclaim the child within a certain timeframe.'

Could someone with medical training have been with her tho? Seems unlikely but not impossible

USA has Safe Haven Baby Boxes, maybe the UK should as well.

Yes it makes me think of Frizl

A woman struggling with alcohol or learning difficulties is far less likely to be able to conceal a pregancy, let alone three. Same for a homeless person.

Indeed. And any of those women might, even if reluctantly, find their way to a hospital if they’re in labour and struggling. Alcohol or homelessness wouldn’t prevent that if the woman has free will. And I don’t see how someone with significant learning difficulties could give birth three times with no ill effects that wouldn’t have prompted another person to get them to hospital.

Only someone being controlled by a trafficker / abuser, or someone very afraid of the authorities could find themselves in this position three times.

1 hour after birthing my children I was still struggling with the placenta and that’s with the medication to speed it up and massage by the midwife. This woman birthed with no pain meds, no stitches, no medicine. She wasn’t walking through the freezing streets of London within an hour.

This isn't really relevant. There are many cases of women abandoning babies in public toilets after giving birth alone. There was that 19yo who birthed in a toilet and dumped her son in the bin, then walked off.

Yes, of course it could be the mother. There's only two people it's likely to be

No excuse not to use freely available contraception for men and women unless it's a religion or lifestyle that doesn't permit contraception and that has no place in the U.K.

So desperately sad.

On names Elsa's guardians asked to change her name as they felt it was gimmicky but a judge said no stating it was part of her history. So I don't think it is a press name, but don't know if its easy enough for future adoptive parents to change it in time.

This isn't a case of not using contraception as someone mentioned earlier. I'm all for personal responsibility but this sounds like a welfare issue 100%

All it would take is for the mother to privately disclose her identity to the police. For whatever reason, she doesnt feel able to.

I’d imagine there’s a high chance she’s undocumented, possibly no English and possibly not allowed to leave her house. I’m sure her conditions are abhorrent, I wouldn’t be quick to believe she has any choice in the way she’s living.

I really really hope that police know more than they’ve announced, and this time they’ll be able to trace someone via CCTV.

Yes there is.

But it;s not allowed in the UK. There have been several cases in the US which have been solved by using DNA databases on sites like Gedmatch to build trees and identify possible individuals. It takes a LOT of work though. Comparing these sorts of samples to databases is not legal in the UK. The police can sometimes get permission to compare DNA samples taken from a victim to other people in the police DNA database only. The murder of Melanie Road in 1984 was solved that way when the police got a close match from the murderer's daughter on the DNA database.