Excess Deaths?

[Abbie86]

Did anyone see the speech given in parliament last week on the ongoing huge levels of excess deaths here in the UK and across most of the Western World?

Nobody seems to care about this and it is not in the news. And nobody seems to care that no one cares.

I am expecting a new born in December and worry what sort of world we will be leaving her. Does anyone else find this all a bit worrying?

Sorry - it's a very long piece. Can you summarise what the main points are, and in particular what the cause(s) of the excess deaths are?

Mr Bridgen, suggested that the vaccines may be having an impact as many countries showed little in the way of excess deaths for 2020, the main year of the pandemic, but excess deaths increasing and coinciding with the vaccine rollout 2021 onwards. A significant number of excess deaths are across the younger age groups and a large proportion relate to cardiac issues. He backs this up with plenty of evidence based on the real world data.

There will be other causes of course in the mix, including the collateral damage from lockdown, GP's closed to face to face etc, but the key thing is that we need a proper investigation.

The response from the junior minister for health was dismissive and vague - blaming flu for example, even when flu does not really impact much on younger people where the excess deaths are currently being seen.

I suggest you have a listen, it is enlightening and shocking in equal measure.

God I hope it’s true. One of the reasons I made sure I had the vaccine was the hope it would wipe me out earlier.

I don't think I'd take Andrew Bridgen's word that today is Tuesday.

Is it not more likely that we are seeing the effects of effectively closing the health service for a couple of years.

Mr Bridgen, suggested that the vaccines may be having an impact as many countries showed little in the way of excess deaths for 2020, the main year of the pandemic, but excess deaths increasing and coinciding with the vaccine rollout 2021 onwards. A significant number of excess deaths are across the younger age groups and a large proportion relate to cardiac issues. He backs this up with plenty of evidence based on the real world data.

I suspect that shortly this thread will descent into a complete shit show with accusations of “conspiracy theories” and ignorant “anti vaxxers” thrown at anyone who takes these concerns seriously. I take them seriously and there is a great deal of evidence to suggest that the Covid vaccinations are ticking time bombs. I’m no anti vaxxer, I had three - first two and then later a booster as did my children. I’d LOVE there to be no merit in this.

Andrew Bridgen is a COVID-19 vaccine conspiracist. I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

At best, AB has demonstrated correlation. He hasn't demonstrated any causation, just suggested it. There are no 'concerns' that can be taken seriously.

Looking at the figures from March 2020 to December 2021 the highest months for excess deaths were April 2020 and January 2021. The roll out of vaccines was only just starting in January 2021 wasn't it? It also shows January 2021 as the lowest number of excess deaths if you take out covid deaths.

Trouble with stats is they can always be interpreted in various ways, has Bridgen got an agenda?

Excess deaths figures are meaningless without further research

Long Covid, Covid complications, health services effectively shut down for new cancer and heart patients - unless the causes of death are recorded, an anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist like Bridgen, will have a field day

There are many explanations about excess deaths @Abbie86 .
Ofc you have the ‘but vaccines’ crowd.

And more realistically, you have tte fact covid is dangerous and kills. Not just directly but months later - with strokes, cardiac arrests etc…

Eg excess deaths doesn’t show with the elderlies who have had tte vaccines.
Tte biggest group affected by excess deaths are the 25-44yo who only got tte first vaccines (and many didn’t) and the 0-4yo group (who didn’t get any at all).

I get what you are saying about worry though.
There is covid which is still a pandemic.
There us climate change
etc etc…

Im not optimistic either.

Surely we are going to get a higher number of deaths at an earlier age due to unhealthy lifestyle. The number of people with diabetes and heart disease is hugely increased from 40 years ago.

And covid is triggering both diabetes and heart problems.…

Well my darling SIL will be one of those excess deaths. Killed by stomach cancer at 69. No fecker took her seriously in 2020 into 2021, no Drs appointment, poor diagnosis, again blamed on Covid, no treatment for months and by that time nothing could be done.

We lost her 6 months ago.

Wow! I am not an antivaxxer but that debate has certainly made me think..
I was wondering if it’s the knock on of the drs closure during lockdown (ours was phone call only) people not attending A&E etc etc. but the data on Australia (if legit) was shocking.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001r1mq might shed some light (and debunks notion that vaccines cause excess deaths)

What part of the data presented in the speech do you believe is a conspiracy?

Would be useful if you could qualify your reasoning with evidence.

Yes for sure to some extent, but the excess deaths are also prevalent in many countries whose health service did not close like ours, so how do we explain that?

In Australia, excess deaths started to increase substantially once the vaccine rolled out - before there was even any Covid in the country, so how should we explain this?

There was negligible levels of excess death in Germany, and some other Western countries during 2020, the main year of the pandemic, and before any protection given by the vaccines.

But 2021, 2022, and 2023 are now showing high (not just high - but never ever seen before) levels of excess deaths. How can we explain this?

Not sure about vaccine roll out but they were the 2 months after huge covid cases.

First lockdown March 2020. Second one (tier 4) after the month long one (Nov 2020) and school closures was early January 2021.

The NHS was never closed, apart from the very first lockdown - so about 2 months.

If you look at my post earlier I quote govt figures which state the highest months for excess deaths from March 2020 to December 2021 were April 2020, no vaccine, and January 2021, vaccine roll out just starting.

Tbh Wo doing any in-depth study, it’s hard to say.

But one possible answer is that lockdowns actually did help.
Another is that lifting protection such as masks encouraged the spread of tte virus
Or consequences if covid aren’t immediate.
eg researchers are talking more and more about the effect if covid on T cells and reservoir of virus in the body. Which basically means covid could destroy our immune system in a similar way HIV does. It would allow opportunistic infections to spread and kill (see also the reappearance of some illnesses)

Just now I’m not sure anyone knows for sure as there are so many different possibilities and we still don’t know what covid does to the body.

Yes but nothing to do with vaccines and the rest of 2021 was lowerexcess deaths than in January and by the summer lots of people vaccinated, even more by the winter. I think I was on my third dose, I'd definitely had 2 and I wasn't in the highest priority group. So where were all the excess deaths caused by the vaccine?

Was March 2020 huge cases, it was early so not sure if later months were higher. They were low where I live in the south west in March 2020, much higher after the eat out to spread it campaign.

Pop into any A&E or talk to someone who is on a waiting list for important medical procedures. This may give you an insight into what the Tories are doing to the health service and possibly a clue to another contributing factor to excess deaths.