Excess Deaths?

[Abbie86]

Did anyone see the speech given in parliament last week on the ongoing huge levels of excess deaths here in the UK and across most of the Western World?

Nobody seems to care about this and it is not in the news. And nobody seems to care that no one cares.

I am expecting a new born in December and worry what sort of world we will be leaving her. Does anyone else find this all a bit worrying?

You can play with the data here, I've selected a few countries and looking at excess mortality, you can see it's much better recently:

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01..latest&facet=none&country=USA~GBR~CAN~DEU~ITA~IND&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=Excess+mortality+%28%25%29&Interval=Weekly&Relative+to+Population=true&Color+by+test+positivity=false

watching with interest. Thank you OP

If you look at the excess death figures, Sweden disproves any claims that lockdowns did anything meaningful to reduce mortality. But lockdowns do cause huge collateral damage to multiple facets of society, children, mental health and the economy. Studies have been done to show that fear (stress) and loneliness can have huge negative outcomes for Covid consequences, plus a raft of other conditions.

The comprehensive Cochrane study showed conclusively that the effects of masking showed no benefits regarding community spread of a respiratory pathogen. In short, masks might make it feel like you are doing something, but they are about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

So are you concerned about lockdowns, the long term effects of lockdowns, masking or excess deaths now and a possible connection with vaccines?

So OP you doesn't just stumble across this article did you? It seems you are very invested in this topic...

Of course I am, I am concerned about all facets. Why on earth would you not be given the current levels of excess death?

Are you not at all concerned how this has come about?

We should all be invested and concerned to ensure that whatever is causing the excess deaths does not get swept under the carpet.

Surely you understand how important it is to investigate this, and that we cann't exclude the vaccines from this unless proved otherwise.

If you disagree with any of the data presented by Mr Bridgen in parliament, perhaps, rather than attempting to score cheap shots with vague assertions, you could have the common courtesy to say which of the data presented you do not agree with and why it is that you disagree.

It is only with open, honest discussion that we will move forward.

Cochrane doesn’t do studies, it does meta-analyses & systematic reviews. It didn’t show anything conclusively as the primary research wasn’t sufficient.

Here’s the Cochrane Editor in Chief’s statement on the review you are referring to: https://www.cochrane.org/news/statement-physical-interventions-interrupt-or-reduce-spread-respiratory-viruses-review

Lockdowns are over, masks are over so no I'm not going to waste my time worrying about them. We all saw what was happening in places like Italy, did you really want nothing to be done?

I've given examples of excess deaths that don't support what you've said, you haven't responded to that.

Haha, the best that they can say is that the impact of community mask wearing is inconclusive. In other words there is no evidence that it works. Unless you have any solid evidence of course, then please feel free to share it.

Meanwhile I believe in Austria after N95's were made mandatory, Covid cases actually rose. Scotland who retained masks after England ditched them, cases again rose higher than in England. Of course you will probably say that without masks cases would have been higher still, but there is zero evidence to support this. Any way, cases don't matter since everyone has had Covid multiple times by now. Have masks stoped this - of course they haven't.

So you can conclusively dismiss the vaccines from any suspicion then? Proper head in the sand stuff there.

You still have not said which of Mr Bridgen's data you disagree with and why?

Andrew Bridgen has a very particular agenda, as - I would suggest - you do @Abbie86

He's been expelled from the Tory part because of these views:

Here:

You report saying, "Mr Bridgen, suggested that the vaccines may be having an impact as many countries showed little in the way of excess deaths for 2020, the main year of the pandemic, but excess deaths increasing and coinciding with the vaccine rollout 2021 onwards."

I don't know which countries he's talking about but as I've told you twice the govt figures for this country show the highest number of excess deaths in 2021 were in January 2021 when very few people had the vaccine as it was the start of roll out. The highest figures from March 2020 to December 2021 were in April 2020 (no vaccine) and January 2021 (start of roll out and limited vaccine available)

Cochrane’s purpose isn’t to make clear pronouncements on things, just to synthesise the available primary evidence and draw conclusions where possible. They say there isn’t clear evidence because the studies conducted were not large enough, of high enough quality or well-designed enough to draw conclusions from.

I don’t need to provide evidence about masks because all I did was to fact check your statement “The comprehensive Cochrane study showed conclusively that the effects of masking showed no benefits regarding community spread of a respiratory pathogen.”

I don’t think you’re coming at this with an open mind so I’m going to bow out of the conversation.

Absolutely . Also you need to know how many of those age group had the vaccine and those that did not , plus how many had covid and how many did not .

many young people I know chose not to have the vaccine . And some only had it when they had to , for example travelling abroad .

Yes, the thing about wearing masks is that it wasn't a scientific experiment. We have no way of knowing whether the disease would have spread even faster if people hadn't worn masks.

Anyway, that man. Unless he is a highly qualified scientist and fully conversant with the interpretation of scientific reports, then he is not capable of drawing any reliable conclusions from the primary data.

Actually, it's you an AB who should be providing evidence. As mentioned before, all that has been demonstrated is correlation, which does not indicate causation. Given the lack of evidence indicating causation, the whole argument is conspiracy.

Cochran is also extremely controversial nowadays.

It used to be THE reference and it certainly was build for that - taking all the available research and through meta analysis etc… showing what we could tell.

Except they’ve been ‘highjacked’ by big money (read pharma) and quite a few if their results are now discredited by researchers all over the world.
Their biggest downfall? Covid, the masks study etc…. which has been shown to be completely fawn again and again.

There is plenty of correlation but as the UKHSA or other agencies does not release the raw data of death by vaccine status in each age band, despite being repeatedly asked to under FOI request, you have to ask yourself why? Why would they not want to release this data?

It is not conspiracy - it is a difference of opinion. You seem to view the vaccines with some sort of untouchable religious type zealotry. Why is this?

The vaccines had already been rolled out to the most vulnerable by the end of January with over 20% of the population jabbed. So there is your correlation if you like. I might add that no-one was classified as vaccinated until 14 days after their shot.

Cool - you will be able to show me a real world, randomised control trial mask study that shows masks work then?

Any way, cases don't matter since everyone has had Covid multiple times by now. Have masks stoped this - of course they haven't.

I disagree with that.

Not everyone has had covid, let alone multiple times.
Masks do protect as long as they are 1- at least ffp2, 2- fitted properly and 3- used all the time. Aka they won’t protect You if you dint wear them
eg you are going to catch covid if you wear mask at work but then have lunch with colleagues in a small room. But that’s not because masks don’t work! It’s because you’ve taken your mask off.

Also Id be careful with any statement such as I believe that cases went up in Austria ….
Belief isn’t enough to draw conclusion. Only proper study of the numbers, incl taking into consideration all the different factors.
And even then it’s worth remembering that correlation doesn’t mean causation.
aka of numbers of cases go up when people start wearing masks mean there is a correlation. It does NOT mean wearing mask causes an increase in covid cases.

Cool - you will be able to show me a real world, randomised control trial mask study that shows masks work then?

There can be all the correlation in the world, but without evidence of causation, it's all conspiracy. There is no 'difference of opinion' - we're discussing facts.

You seem to view the vaccines with some sort of untouchable religious type zealotry

Hmm. I don't think anything I've said gets 1% of the way to zealotry. You're being ridiculous.

Can you show me a study that shows they don’t work?

Clue: you won’t be able to.
Studies on masks and protection given by masks have never And cannot be made into a randomised control trial because it’s not possible to do one.
Look at what is involved into creating one if them and you’ll understand.