Shamima Begum lost her appeal....

[Noangelbuthavingfun]

Just heard on BBC news a reporter said one reason is that she has shown zero remorse and spoke exactly like other extremists - still. Whilst it us unfortunate fir her...
I think it's the right decision given the circumstances....what are your thoughts?

The point is being misunderstood.
This was NOT an assessment of her current or past risk.
It was a judgement on whether the government gave proper consideration to her status as a trafficked 15yr old when they made the original decision.

Whatever anyone thinks of her, I’m not sure how anyone can think that at 15yrs she wasn’t thoroughly and carefully groomed by ISIS, and trafficked by ISIS, including for sexual purposes.

I do think that she is our responsibility - she grew up here and was radicalised here. However, that does not trump Syria's right to try and punish her for the crimes she commited in Syria and against Syrian people. Until we know what Syria wants to do I don't think we can comment on the case in an informed way. It might well be that not restoring her citizenship will be helpful in an attempt by Syria to try her. In which case, if that is what the want, we should cooperate with that if possible. If Syria simply want shot of her then I think that would put a very different complexion on the case as then I think that we have a moral responsibility to deal with our own mess.

I also think that this is different to the case of Rhianan Rudd. First Rhianan took her own life so is not a continuing threat and so I think we should be prepared to be compassionate and to look critically at how her situation arose. Secondly she was clearly vulnerable as a result of her autism. Thirdly her case did actually go through the justice process which found that she had been groomed - so a legally accepted level of evidence for this in her case . Finally, she hadn't actually committed a terrorist atrocity and we don't know if she ultimately would have done which is also not the case for Shamima

What do you think will happen if she gets her citizenship back? That she’ll come back to the UK and live a merry little life? She’d be extradited and probably spend the rest of her life imprisoned for crimes against the state.

No matter what crime you’ve committed the citizenship of your birth country is not something that should be able to be removed. It doesn’t actually matter where she admits it/is remorseful/was groomed, bottom line she is a British citizen, that should have never been taken away.

I think she’s a little unfortunate in having been born with a face and voice that are seemingly incapable of conveying any kind of authenticity or honesty in anything she says.

A child was groomed and radicalised by a terrorist organisation, and the response of the UK government is to strip her of her citizenship. All of this frothing and demanding she should show "remorse" - the woman is traumatised! Do we only act in a just way towards those who give us the emotional reactions we want? Is the law not for all? She is not a Bangladeshi citizen, she happens to be of Bangladeshi descent. She has been made stateless, this is not right.

Exactly. She's not going to be a regular panelist on Loose Women, is she? It's about whether she gets a trial and imprisonment here. You would think they'd rather make an example of her in the UK.

Also, she might well be able to apply for asylum anywhere else if she would face the death penalty in Bangladesh. Not sure how that's such a big win for anyone compared to a trial and prison?!?

"If you haven't done anything wrong you haven't got anything to worry about" type stuff is so dangerous. No examples from history of that ever going wrong, are there!

I think it’s the right choice.

Did she even have a British passport or any passport of her own? I read she travelled on her sister’s. Was that a British or Bangladeshi passport?

Her parents are Bangladeshi citizens, from reports, residing in the UK, not sure if they were naturalised as British? Was she registered as a British Citizen then. I thought you had to be in those circumstances?

I also read that she actively sought out internet connection with ISIS. If so how was she radicalised? I don’t take responsibility for that as part of ‘society’! That was surely her family’s responsibility. Where are they in this? They can go live with her in Bangladesh as they’re citizens, they should take responsibility for raising her, and they can help her face justice there. She hasn’t faced any yet.

I didn’t think there was any independent evidence she lost 3 children. I remember reading about that years ago. She’s not sad about it which speaks volumes and it obviously got her the sympathy vote from the do gooding woolly liberals who think she should get a free pass (cos she was young and naive) to possibly commit further terrorists acts in this country. As long as it’s not their DC blown up eh?

Savid Javid had intel on her which has not been made public.

Exactly!

@FrostyNethers - the third child was born in the refugee camp and she was interviewed on camera very shortly afterwards with the baby. The baby died in a hospital she was taken to by guards from the refugee camp so I am pretty sure there is evidence of that child. Her estranged husband also talks about his children. He has little reason to lie I would think.

@Plitvice - do have a link to the article by the activist. I am really interested to read about it.

Totally agree. I think it’s completely wrong to strip her of her citizenship. That doesn’t mean that I don’t find her behaviour abhorrent. Bring her back to the UK and try her for her crimes. But why strip her of her citizenship? I’d argue that your average white, male paedophile causes FAR more harm to our society than Shamima Begum and most of them don’t even get a custodial sentence, never mind lose their British citizenship.

It's interesting to read what the judges actually said. They seem pretty sure that she was groomed and trafficked. Basically they've got to accept what the Home Secretary has concluded re the risk she poses. And we won't ever be privy to that. So we will just have to hope one of the ever so impeccable, not at all questionable, ministers of our populist government made the decision for the right reason.

She was registered - how could she not have been go get into school?!

And she was never registered in Bangladesh.

I honestly don't know.

I suspect there probably much more information held on her than is in the public domain. I also think she'd be a security nightmare if she came back.

At same time she was 15 - groomed - and at very least her three now deceased children should have had a claim to better care from either us or her husband country.

I also worry about effectively making a British citizen stateless and the wider implications to other people - she only had a theoretical claim to Bangladesh's citizenship as I understand it - likely non viable now so she is effectively stateless.

I agree more is inown about this than out in the public domain. Must be pretty bad if she is a risk to national security.

Absolutely!

Oh yes, let her be a burden on Syria instead, they can afford it so much better than we can...

I’m glad about the decision made and hope it will serve as a detriment for others, however many or few, who may be tempted to follow in her path,

I don’t know how anybody truly knows if she has remorse or not.
I would imagine that she dare not speak out against ISIS or she will end up with the same fate as others she has witnessed…her head in the garbage.
She was ignorant about ISIS when she left UK at age 15 and had been groomed and strongly indoctrinated by others in the organisation to recognise non-ISIS as the enemy. She has had no chance where she is, to learn much different. She had to learn to survive and by pure instinct would agree to anything to spare herself pain and suffering at that tender age. Imagine our own 15 year olds in that position. If you lose 3 children one after the other I think you would have to somehow harden yourself unimaginably, in order to go on living. Doing whatever you can to survive, no matter how horrible, is now her way of life.
She did say, in a recent documentary that she didn’t expect her appeal to be successful. When asked why not she answered that she had made her bed and had to now lie in it and her punishment was having to stay in the tented camp. She accepted that fate. She acted defeated, not entitled.
I think the outcome today is cruel. She deserves a chance to be in a place of safety to at least learn how and why her 15 year old judgement and actions were so very wrong and to understand and put into perspective all the implications of that. Only then, whilst still feeling safe, can she be truly sorry and show remorse.

This was true at the time. However, according to this article also from 2019, her parents needed to register her with the High Commission at the time of her birth, which they didn’t do. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/21/what-is-the-truth-about-shamima-begums-citizenship-status

This is now moot. SB is now effectively stateless as being over the age of 21 now, Bangladesh no longer has to award her citizenship under their own rules. Idk where she goes from here tbh as she is unable to obtain either citizenship or the country of her birth or that of her mother.

She may be able to obtain Syrian citizenship? A quick google suggests living there 10 years and married to a Syrian. Doubt if they’d want her either. I am of the opinion it is shameful of this country to expect a country, where she wasn’t born and wasn’t living in when she was groomed nor officially had obtained citizenship in should be expected to house her whether that be Syria or Bangladesh.

I think she shouldnt have been stripped of their citizenship

But in respect of all the comments about how she was groomed etc etc. Isnt that the case for all terrorists and extremists?

Any of the male adult terrorists who have caused atrocities, they've all been groomed surely by virtue of either they grew up in an environment where that was told to them or they've been encouraged into it by friends, family down the line?

Why is it different for her?

Mixed feelings on this.

When I saw the first interview I did feel she wanted to return to the UK because Isis had been weakened. It felt like her team had lost so it was time to switch sides. She came across as wistful about Isis losing. However, her views may have been about protecting herself or still being influenced: other Isis brides were being housed within this camp. Her comments were also typical of someone who’d been groomed.

Legally at 15 she was still a child. Some commentators are referring to her as a 15 year old woman who chose to leave. You can’t adultify a 15 year old regardless of how much you dislike their decisions. She wasn’t a woman and at 15 years old she would’ve been easier to influence. Her two friends paid the ultimate price for being groomed and leaving the UK.

We aren’t privy to the info that the Home Office/intel agencies have on Shemima. They have said she was much more involved in day to day activities which is a major concern. If she was allowed to return to the UK and stand trial would there be enough evidence to convict? How much of a security risk would she be if she came back? Would she live under heavy surveillance? Would she be under constant attack from those who’ve hated what she’s done?

Because she was 15, and therefore a child.