Archbishop says Sharia law in this country is unavoidable

[spokette]

Really?

Well if it does happen (heaven help us if it does), guess who will lose out because it certainly won't be the men.

There are over 50 muslim countries in the world so if someone wants to observe sharia law, I'm sure one of them will accommodate their lifestyle choice.

My parents came from Jamaica in the 1960s and even though they retained their culture, they observed British law.

My personal opinion is that Sharia law is incompatible in a country where laws are in place to protect and uphold the rights of women because it is usually women who receive a raw deal.

There was a documentary shown a few years ago which followed a female lawyer in an African country (cannot remember which one - might have been Nigeria) who adjudicated over cases where women seeked redress in civil courts whilst their husbands went to the Sharia courts. It made me thankful to live in this country.

Also remember the case of the Muslim woman in Nigeria who was sentenced to death for having an affair with a married man which resulted in a child? He was given a slap on the wrist and told not to do it again.

Wholeheartedly agree with you@spokette.

I watched a very interesting programme the other day about Sharia Law

people went to their elders (not sure is that is the correct term) with marriage problems etc and got advise

from what I could see they were like Relate and not advocating chopping heads off etc

one man had married again in Pakistan and his first wife was (understandably) pissed off. The elder got them to discuss things etc

was it sisters in law? spokette

Sorry - brain is awol today..
is he saying that for families who wish for things to be settled in a sharia court they could be and legally recognised in this country

or is he saying that if I had marital difficulties as a Christian with NO interest in Sharia law would have to go through the same system?

That's the one Southeastastra. It was based in Cameroon, not Nigeria.

It was a fascinating and enlightening documentary which showed why education is so vital in empowering women in underdeveloped countries like Cameroon

Did you go all gooey inside the first time he washed people's feet on Maundy Thursday Issy?

I cannot see parliament agreeing that Sharia law be allowed to supercede or take precedent over current law decided in parliament.

In Nigeria, Sharia Law is practiced locally, with the consent and particpation of local people but it cannot take supremacy over national law. SO if a sharia court sentences someone to a punishment which is not allowed under national law, it has to be referred to the national courts - which always overturn it. There was a documentary a few months back about the practice of local shariah law, and how people took disputes to the shariah court fr a quick resolution.

There are many forums for resolving disputes in this country - mediation, committeess with voting and grievance procedures etc etc. if muslim communities wish to implement some of these, for willing and consensual particpants, well so be it. But can you relly see parliament allowing a situation where a citizen of this country could be sentenced to be flogged, in this country, and for the law not to intervene to prebent it? Flogging poeple being against the law.

Rowan Willimas, in advocating 'choice' for muslim communities is simpley stirring up shit against them.

And what next - independent law for the CoE? Escaping their obligation to allow for equal opportunities for applicants for youth leader jobs?????????? WEll, how handy - and after all if Muslims can have their own laws.......

Wasn't Rowan Williams last heard of doing his best to stop American Episcopal churches conducting gay marriage services for fear of alienating ferociously homophobic congregations in some African countries?

I appreciate what Williams is saying but somehow, I would not trust the more fundamental and extreme elements to observe restraint. Give some people an inch and they take a mile, iykwim.

Passions for religious figures are such strange things are they not Kathy?

yes - Issymum is right - but it will be reported as it has been in the thread title, and he should know better. IMO.

(I am free of any form of worship for Rowan Williams - I view him as a menace, tbh)

We want less religious influence on our laws not more of it ffs. The fact that we have blasphemy laws has led to all sorts of other religions wanting 'equal treatment' which will only lead to yet more bigotry and people bleating that they are 'offended' by plays, books, comedians etc. As for Sharia law it has no place whatsoever in our democracy where women have equal rights - end of.

LOL MB.

Seriously, there would be elements of Sharia that are just totally benign (I don't see how anyone can object to, say, Sharia-compliant mortgages and bank accounts) and I'm sure it's the non-scary stuff that's being talked about here - I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting British Muslims are going to be allowed to start stoning people or taking women's testimony as worth half a man's.
However, it could get a bit divisive if every time anything Sharia-related came up, Muslims got offered a different set of options.

Oh, for crying out loud. The man is highly intelligent, does he not realize how something like this will be reported on?

I disagree with him anyway, particularly when he says that 'one law for everyone' is a bad idea. I think that's a ridiculous attitude - one law for everyone is an absolutely vital part of a fair system.

i would be interested to know specifically which aspects of Sharia law he thinks could be integrated. Because the only aspects i ever seem to hear about are extremely degrading and offensive to most people.

as far as i know there are a lot of muslims who would not want sharia law to be brought into effect in this country in any form.

but we already have sharia mortages and bank accounts in Britain, so the 'soft stuff' is already here for whoever wants it.

I'll stick with Murphy's Law.

Imagine the fundamentalist Muslims and Mormons joining forces to campaign for the right to practise polygamy?

I nearly smashed my radio when I heard this at lunchtime.

I'm prepared to be educated though: what aspects of sharia law could he be referring to? As others have said, the bank accounts and marriage guidance are presumably already perfectly legal here. What in the name of Mike is he talking about?

What in the name of St Mike, indeed

Why does everyone think that wayward eyebrows denote some superhuman intelligence?

The man's a loon. Ignore.

"He says Muslims should not have to choose between "the stark alternatives of cultural loyalty or state loyalty".

1. Islam is a religion, not a culture
2. Cohesion in society is obtained by respecting others and ensuring that the laws of the land are applied fairly and equally to all citizens so that everyone is treated fairly. If people believe (rightly or wrongly) that one group is trying to usurp the law of the land for their own personal benefit or gain, that leads to resentment, mistrust and division.

That is why France have got it right. Keep religion out of schools and state matters.

Well I just heard another item about this, and it appears to be a complete storm in a teacup. Basically, he's saying that Muslims should be allowed to approach an imam/sharia court to arbitrate and make rulings in cases of dividing up property after divorce or death. Which they, er, are already perfectly free to do, and indeed do do.

If either party does not comply with the sharia ruling, the parties involved will turn to the national legal system and take it from there.

So basically RW has stirred up a complete hornets' nest for no discernible reason. Are you sure he's bright, Sue?

can Sharia be applied piecemeal though?

Isn't it more of an 'All or nowt' sort of thing?