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Archbishop says Sharia law in this country is unavoidable

313 replies

spokette · 07/02/2008 15:49

Really?

Well if it does happen (heaven help us if it does), guess who will lose out because it certainly won't be the men.

There are over 50 muslim countries in the world so if someone wants to observe sharia law, I'm sure one of them will accommodate their lifestyle choice.

My parents came from Jamaica in the 1960s and even though they retained their culture, they observed British law.

My personal opinion is that Sharia law is incompatible in a country where laws are in place to protect and uphold the rights of women because it is usually women who receive a raw deal.

There was a documentary shown a few years ago which followed a female lawyer in an African country (cannot remember which one - might have been Nigeria) who adjudicated over cases where women seeked redress in civil courts whilst their husbands went to the Sharia courts. It made me thankful to live in this country.

Also remember the case of the Muslim woman in Nigeria who was sentenced to death for having an affair with a married man which resulted in a child? He was given a slap on the wrist and told not to do it again.

OP posts:
dinny · 07/02/2008 21:16

what a total idiot Williams is.

catinthehat · 07/02/2008 21:17

Interesting & relevant article - link posted on Ship of Fools website earlier this evening - thought it worth sharing.

Is Multiculturalism Bad for Women?

WendyWeber · 07/02/2008 21:19

Well, Rowan has got it all out in the open then, hasn't he, mt?

He usually seems like quite a sound sort of bloke - for an Archbishop...

monkeytrousers · 07/02/2008 21:21

He has, I agree.

But "inevitable">? He will have a fight on his hands - I hope!

monkeytrousers · 07/02/2008 21:24

That looks really interesting Cat, thanks for posting the link

LittleBella · 07/02/2008 21:29

I suspect he has deliberately said this to alert us all to the fact that it is creeping in.

I didn't know about Somali courts either. Now I do, I want them abolished and the cases heard under the same bloody law as everyone else has access to. As I'm sure the Archbish knows is how most people will feel.

catinthehat · 07/02/2008 21:33

++Rowan has jumped the shark

Piffle · 07/02/2008 21:37

I saw the same programme that OLiveOil saw and happen to think that as an advisory service for their community it made excellent sense esp in domestic affairs. Women also do have the safety of going to civil courts.
Obv there are issues with cases pf domestic abuse etc BUT what these women (of deep faith) wanted was Islamic approval for their problems before seeeking LEGAL divorces etc
Although that said resolutions were less that satisfactory but we judge other cultures on what we perceive as just...

monkeytrousers · 07/02/2008 21:57

I don't Piffle. I judge human rights as universals.

Piffle · 07/02/2008 22:11

I said that as it was clear in that programme that the women were not happy unless they had Shariah approval.
My opinion of their human rights not being respected was irrelevant

WendyWeber · 07/02/2008 22:12
Piffle · 07/02/2008 22:16

my point and she was a very well educated (I thought) and western thinking lass

monkeytrousers · 07/02/2008 22:34

Most women under Islam are not educated

pankhurst · 07/02/2008 22:41

Can I be boring and attach this thread to the thread we were discussing yesterday - particularly in light of spokette's comment about polygamy.

Sorry to go on about it but the UK gov already is allowing polygamous marriage - and paying men who have polygamous unions benefits for each WIFE.

Catinthehat - your article highlights exactly the problem that France had when it went down this route - and the fact that they are backtracking on polygamy because its just horrendous for the women.

Monkeytrooz, you're great at talking about all this. I will just shut up now and go away. But I'm really concerned - what would a Western feminist DO to make her voice heard on these issues?

monkeytrousers · 07/02/2008 22:52

Thanks Pankhurst, I feel I must declare myself to be a feminist but not one (by your name) of traditional creed; I am darwinian feminist. I really hope we can still be friends though and I hope some of the things I say convinces you that evolution (or biology) are not incopmatible with traditional feminism.

Anywayyy, Phylis Chesler is a western feminist comminted to non-cultural relativism.

Frizbe · 07/02/2008 22:54

Great article Cat, well found. I've had to much wine to answer this coherently tonight, so will hold off till tomorrow.

PussinJimmyChoos · 07/02/2008 22:57

Most women under Islam are not educated??! I wouldn't say most - a proportion yes, but that is the same in any religion/society - how many secular or people of other religions are there in the world that can barely read or write also?

monkeytrousers · 07/02/2008 23:01

That isn't the same in this society, liberal democracy, PiJC's at all.

No other religion is making such a concerted attack on civil liberties other than Islam at the moment either.

monkeytrousers · 07/02/2008 23:02

And no, most women is correct.

PussinJimmyChoos · 07/02/2008 23:14

Islam advocates education equally for both men and women - so called Islamic states that wilfully misapply Islam in order to supress the education of women are NOT following Islam at all...Khadija, the wife of the Prophet (PBUH) was known for her business acumen, knowledge and intelligence and there are several hadiths (sayings of the Prohphet) attributed to her, with her opinion valued amongst the scholars of the day. Education is so important in Islam - in fact, there is even an hadith stating that Muslims (both male and female!) should go forth and seek education and knowledge!

pankhurst · 07/02/2008 23:17

I have to say that the sub-divisions within Feminism are at least as frightening as the concept of Sharia law in Britain.

We will be friends and friendly.

All feminists on the bus! (I may be at the back with my feet up on the seats sticking chewing gum onto the windows but I'm on the bus!)

pankhurst · 07/02/2008 23:18

LAST QUESTION - I PROMISE

Was Aisha something to do with the Prophet (PBUH)?

PussinJimmyChoos · 07/02/2008 23:24

Yes, she was one of his wives

monkeytrousers · 07/02/2008 23:24

Islamic states are the norm of Islam PiJC's they are not the exception. I wish weren?t so, but it is. Islam, is not a 'pure' religion but also constructed from very traditional cultural practices (as is often said about female infibulation for example) but the two go hand in hand and this is what Sharia Law is in practice. Not in interpretation, bit in actuality. The words of the Prophet are fused with acacic tradition which brutalises both men and women, especially in their relations with each other. There is no equality within pious Islam and it is a point of 'virtue' within political Islamism. I am sorry, I really am. I don?t want to disrespect you, but I have to challenge this.

I would defend Islam to the last if it could also defend me as a woman to defend myself against it.

monkeytrousers · 07/02/2008 23:26

But it can't