Archbishop says Sharia law in this country is unavoidable

[spokette]

Really?

Well if it does happen (heaven help us if it does), guess who will lose out because it certainly won't be the men.

There are over 50 muslim countries in the world so if someone wants to observe sharia law, I'm sure one of them will accommodate their lifestyle choice.

My parents came from Jamaica in the 1960s and even though they retained their culture, they observed British law.

My personal opinion is that Sharia law is incompatible in a country where laws are in place to protect and uphold the rights of women because it is usually women who receive a raw deal.

There was a documentary shown a few years ago which followed a female lawyer in an African country (cannot remember which one - might have been Nigeria) who adjudicated over cases where women seeked redress in civil courts whilst their husbands went to the Sharia courts. It made me thankful to live in this country.

Also remember the case of the Muslim woman in Nigeria who was sentenced to death for having an affair with a married man which resulted in a child? He was given a slap on the wrist and told not to do it again.

Was Aisha educated - like Kadijha? I mean, did she finish school? Before she got married to The Prophet? (PBUH)

Selective quotes won't do it, sorry.

Who in the west quotes the old tesitiment to justofy the benevolece of god and 'HIS' (pertinent) acceptance of female equality.

Sorry, but thank fu

It really really saddens me that Islam has such a shitty press and that it gives you and others opinions such as this - I can see why opinions like yours are formed - there are facts and figures out there that are not pleasing in anyway at all and do sadly, put Islam in a negative light especially to people that do not know about Islam, which is why I'm always on these threads with my standard 'but this isn't the true Islam refrain'

The problem is that so many people confuse culture with Islam and the result is some form of hybrid Islam that doesn't represent the true form

I will say though, that men and women in the eyes of God, are equal - on the day of judgement there is no leeway just because a man is a man or a woman is a woman - a good deed or a bad deed is measured exactly the same

A lot of it all comes down to chauvinist Mullahs and scholars twisting it all to suit their own agenda and it makes me and

Have you read From my Sister's Lips by Na'ima B Roberts - lovely account of conversions to Islam by a number of women...you may find it interesting...

"I have to say that the sub-divisions within Feminism are at least as frightening as the concept of Sharia law in Britain."

I'm sorry Pankhurst,but Sharia, which oppresses billions of women globally, is not in the least compariable to the academic abstract life of feminist schisms.

This reletavism must stop. There is a moral imperative for this.

That a lot of leftwing groups (ie men) support 'not interfering in other people's cultures' is not a surprise, many leftwing activist men are happy to support the rights of other men all over the place but when it comes to women's rights it's all 'not now, dear, after the revolution eh?' The number of fucking wanky white men who I've heard slavering over the 'coolness' and 'right ideas' of complete nutters like the Nation of Islam still annoys me
(quick disclaimer, I do not mean the whole Muslim faith, I mean Louis Farrakhan and his bunch of misogynistic anti-semitic bucketheads).

Btw - we don't actually see god as HE - he's referred to in the masculine sense of the word, just as in Christianity and Judiasim (sp!) but its more for ease of language rather than seeing God as a man - he isn't, he can't be

Pankhurst - I don't know much about about Aisha's education to be honest - am sorry. I do know though that she, like Khadija was a recongised scholar of Islam in the times of the Prophet (PBUH) and also had a number of authenticated hadiths attributed to her

So Aisha wasn't educated? I mean, she didn't finish school? Even JUNIOR school?

Puss? Is THAT what you are saying?

No WAYYYYY! You didn't mention that when you said she was one of his wives.

monkeytrousers- where do you get your stats from?how can you assume that most women under Islam are not educated...i am a muslim woman and of all the people around me the majority who are educated are MUSLIM...you cannot come to this conclusion....there are educated and not so educated women in all religions and cultures.And as for Shariah Law, if it works for those muslim women who agree with it who a I or you to criticise....why do people like you suddenly feel threatened, in a liberated country like Britain, about a law which will probably never make an impact in yourlife whatsoever?if Shariah Law is miraculously accepted in this country then it is for those who wish to abide by it will then be governed by it but in the end the law of the land will prevail...and that law is not about to change and enforce laws on you against your will!i am highly offended by your statement...i know and love my religion and try my best to abide by it as much as i can, there are area which i still need a greater understanding on but i'm on an endless quest for knowledge...but i dont stop and look at others and make assumptions on them...if i am happy with the Laws stated in the Quran who are you to make quesiotns on my behalf, should i not have the freedom to make my choices...so if shariah law gets introduced it is my choice to abide by it or not...and as for your information the majority of women embracing Islam today, especially in this country, are educated and chose to abide by their religion, and are saddened at the unnecessary piety they recieve from women like you who just dont seem to understand and respect their choices!

Pankhurst - I don't know - that's what I said - but anyway, they didn't have things like secondary school etc in those days! lol!

erm, imo, sharia law is incompatible with any soceity...it's a stupid, cruel and old fashioned womanhating law....and I do hope that it will not come to it, that it is legal here...surely you should obide the law of teh country you are in...therefore Sharia law can never be legal...

Monkeytrooz,

I'm on your side - I feel that the academic substrata of feminism are unimportant.

But you brought up Drawinian versus traditional feminism and frightened the beejaysus out of at least half a dozen people on the web with that post.

Now back to Aisha.

She wasn't six or eight or something was she - when she got married?????

I?m sorry too PiJC. I started a petition after 7/7/to try and temper the amount of anti-Islamism in the popular press?but the more I researched, the more I realised that Islam is a fundamentally anti-liberal, anti-feminist movement. There is no doubt about that.

What there might be are moderate Muslims, such as yourself, who feel sympathetic to liberal society, but to voice this is very dangerous ? more dangerous than most of us in the West can comprehend. It?s akin to Breznev?s Russia ? you are simply not allowed to dissent and survive. We in the west put such notions to bed in the late 80s! That?s why most of marched against getting rid of Saddam ? it?s just mad!

But this isn?t just about ?press?. The reality of Islam, and especially Islamism, is that it is fundamentalist at its very heart and the very liberalism you are applying to arguments about your own faith is under attack from it.

I love it that we can discuss this. But if you truly live in an Islamic state, could you do this publicly, as I can? Discuss the ramifications with your partner as an equal? If so, I?d like to know where it is that you live! Can you study western feminism publicly? Can you even read Hirsi Ali in public? An educated male public?

I respect you in defending your culture ? obviously you are very privileged and no doubt I would do the same, which actually is what I am doing ? but your story is the exception to the rule, and as a member of a liberal democracy, where I am allowed to dissent by right, I will try to speak up for those that can?t ? until they can.

I haven?t read that book, you will have to forgive me ? I will read it when it is the rule and not the exception.

LOl Pankhurst!

She was 9...

Pankhurst - DS screeching a lot (bad cold) - why not try googling Islam and Aisha and see what you get?

kutilputil sorry, but you could actually find these things out yourself on something liek wikepedia, a grasp of thenm at least

I get my stats fro0 adedemia but this is my 'dpwn time' sop forgive me if if i don't chase them up eright now

It's incompatible with liberal democracy 3andnomore, which is the crucial fact; women are expected to live by the law of the land within Islamic states and I see no reason why hypocrisy should be applied here in reverse!

Well, the book isn't a scholarly one - its about converts to Islam and born Muslims and their experiences of being a woman in Islam -it couldn't hurt to seek it out in a book shop and dip into it and see what you think couldn't it?

I love that we can discuss this too! I do agree that yes, there are a number of 'Islamic' countries where we could not discuss this on a public forum as we are doing now - but its totally wrong!

Debate is a good thing - it needs to happen. In fact, I remember seeing a programme about trying to get women to be more integrated into the running of Mosques etc and to put a stop to all these chauvanistic (sp!) Mullahs misapplying Islam and freaking out because oh - women on the Mosque committe etc

I'm a convert to Islam btw - converted about 4 years ago

You are a feminist at heart PiJC's. The applcation fo Islam (as you know I'm sure, isnl;t debateable, especailly for women)

Okay, just reading that last steament explains a lot, and as such, why wouldn;t you be a feminist? You have felt no such mortal fear..?

I'm going to bed now however Speak tomorrow.

You know what, I thought I misread that. I thought you meant Aisha was in Year 9.

SHE WAS 9 years old when he had sex with her?

The Prophet Muhammed (Peace Be Upon Him) married a nine year old child?

As one of his twenty wives??????

I don't think that could be right. Could it???

It says he was 56 or so.

No wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAy.

Maybe I googled wrong?

9 ish

And no, to risk my life, I may say he raped a 9 year old

Yes, I've googled it too now DS has stopped - you didn't read it wrong

no-one mentioned this to you?

in the four years that you've been muslim?

it's news to you?

you may consider it rape now but this was 1400+ years ago!for gods sake if you can be liberal in thinking can you not use your clogs about this one....no it is not seen as rape...educate yourself about the prophet and his life and about his wives and then make your conclusions....if it was rape why then would Aishah love, honour and support the prophet and his messages years after he died?different cultures have different traditions and this exists to this day....why when they feel it to be right do you possess the arrogance to make such cruel assumptions and offend that small majority?are you not then alienating people?with what right i ask you?!

Er, hang on though, Jesus was before Muhammed...

I don't think he even got married once. To any adult woman or female child.

I don't think so anyway.