Archie Battersbee thread 5

[henryhihat]

New thread...

If he can't be moved and his mother has more faith in the hospice I wonder if hospice staff could go and be with her and support her at the hospital. Hospice care is all about a good death and although he is dead he doesn't seem that way with his heart beating and an experienced doctor from the hospice might be able to help her come to terms with what is happening. If she can trust them it would make things alot easier for her.

I agree with you @JohnPrescottsPyjamas but I have no doubt everyone at the hospital is very much aware of this and being very careful with what they are doing, no one acting alone etc.

I really think doctors should be able to over-ride parents'/relatives' wishes and do brain-stem tests. If that had happened early on in this case, then this might have all been over weeks, if not months ago.

Hollie is now concerned that they're after his organs ( young , fit , adolescent , they would be very well sought after )

I doubt his organs would be suitable for donation now.

My wish would be for a reporting ban and anonymity in court cases, say Child X rather than naming them or the "cannot be named for legal reasons" we so often see in trials involving under 18s.

They usually are reported without identifying details. In this and the other high profile cases discussed here, it was the family who put the information in the public domain.

Cases should still be reported, and the court papers be publicly available, without the personal details, because there are important ethical and public interest issues to be discussed.

Yes they could ask if a palliative care doctor would speak to the family, this may have already happened anyway, but I doubt it will be a visiting hospice doctor who turns off the ventilator and the infusions, he is not under that doctors care.. the hospital have their own very experienced palliative doctors and nurses and who looks after the hospice patients if the doctor is called away.

You make a fair point, ancientgran, and I speak as one who was assaulted by an HCP and whose FIL was killed by a mistake made by others. In fairness the second case really was a mistake, which they apologised for sincerely and personally at the time - except when the inquest rolled round records were "lost", memories appeared to have failed and some details were downright lied about

But anecdotes aren't data, as they say on here, and in Archie's case there really doesn't seem any room for doubt - not with the diversity of professionals who've pored over every last detail, both in court and out

The mouth to mouth thing and insisting on moving him for a "dignified" death is beyond the pale now for me, personally.

It's beyond unreasonable and unrealistic. This will ensure, whether it's agreed to or not, it will be anything but dignified.

It's shocking tbh

The courts have applied "Best Interests" so far. If they continue to apply the criteria of what is in Archie's best interests, and that alone, I find it hard to believe they can rule he can be moved.

That would require the judges to decide it was is in Archie's best interests to move to a hospice rather than stay in hospital. What evidence would be presented to support that?

Agree.

It maybe that now she really does feel like the staff aren't friendly to her and supportive.

It's very likely they are very guarded towards her.

There's no winners here because what she wants to is love for her and Archie and an overwhelming pouring of love and understanding (and she needs it). But the very people positioned to understand the medical and emotional side have been close to (or possibly actually legally) slandered in the press. They won't be speaking freely and will be fearful of any wrong move.

For this I can see exactly why Ms Dance feels a different setting away from the hospital is best.

It's just a sad truth than it's not in Archie's best interests.

If she carries on the way she is, will she be banned from the room when Archie passes?

Threatening to do mouth to mouth after life support is removed is not exactly the ideal thing is it

Sorry that should have sad "probably" not in best interests.

I realise no judgement has been made on this so far.

I feel for the children and parents in the hospital. It must have an effect on the environment in the hospital.

Hollie is now concerned that they're after his organs ( young , fit , adolescent , they would be very well sought after )

I doubt his organs would be suitable for donation now

Ah no , I was in the timescale of being told he wouldn't make it through the night .
Though as she's convinced he has no organ failure ('cos her friend who's a Nurse visited him and said so ) she probably thinks they're still after his internals .

Of course they are not going to just take his organs, its getting ridiculous.

Even if his organs were in a state to be donated, which they aren’t, they can’t take them with out consent. Hollie is not going to give consent. So they cannot take them

I agree. I'm disgusted tbh

The same thoughts from me, @SummerWithMyHorse and all other parents and relatives on here . This thread will probably be pulled, but if there is another general thread where posters can discuss these matters, I would like to take part.

What concerns me now is that Hollie and the lawyers have got into this cycle of last minute appeals.

ECHR rejected, ok move to a hospice (appeal again, Supreme Court), the appeal to take him around, then appeal about who can be in the room and on and on.

I don't understand what if anything the court can do to pre-empt this. For example, today could the courts say no to a hospice and that also includes any other option to move him out of hospital or vary from the withdrawal procedures the hospital have already provided to you.

Otherwise I feel there's a risk Hollie will just run out of road and find "the next" order doesn't give them until tomorrow to say goodbye, it's in a few hours, regardless of which members are able to be there.

Abroad not around...

The whole thing is , who knows what she's thinking .

I know his organs are not viable for anything .
But Hollie says one member of staff told her "Dont leave him unattended" ( Though did they say WE don't leave him unattended , he is constantly under review 2:1 care and monitored . Go and have coffee/meal/sleep

Se believes they are going to execute her son.
And that after COVID the hospitals are all after organs

I''m going to try to put this as best I can. I apologize for any offense this may cause.

If I were the hospital I'd be praying for an order to move poor Archie to hospice with legal 'advised consent' about the dangers signed by his parents absolving the hospital, transit team, and the hospice of any liability.

At this point, Archie would feel nothing and know nothing if he was moved. His physical body would be treated with respect and gentleness in preparing for and during transport. If it should happen that his poor body does not survive the journey, his body will finally be at peace. His mind/soul/spirit has been at peace for months now.

As far as allowing him a 'dignified death' that ship has rather sailed, hasn't it? He hasn't been 'sentient' (as in knowing and/or feeling what is going on) since the terrible event that has resulted in this tragedy. He is, in essence, a 'shell'. Any 'dignity' in his treatment now is for his parents, not for Archie. But Archie's parents are the ones demanding his transfer, so they must feel (rightly or wrongly) that there would be no 'indignity' in the medical actions that would or could result from that transfer, nor in the transfer itself.

We had my dad disconnected from life support (once he could breathe unassisted) and moved home, where he died 6 weeks later. There was no 'indignity' in the way he was 'handled' (I can't think of another word) by the hospital staff nor by the transit team. He was treated with professionalism and compassion (as were we) from the time we said we wanted him home until the time the transit team put him in a hospital bed in the family home.

He has 2 parents .
Do we knw what Paul Battersbee would've said if there was a situation put to them about donation.

She said in her interview way back that she was shocked that a Dr just came out and said about his non survival , then on Day 2 they were discussing in more detail ( and 116 days later , still here )

I read the website link doing the rounds about Ms Dance's past and the inconsistencies with this story and the way her family are treating people online who disagree with anything they say, and I can fully see why people are struggling to warm to her. It doesn't paint a pretty picture.

But her past and current behaviour aside, she's still a mother losing a child and I can't even fathom how that would make anyone feel. Too many people egging her on to keep fighting and it seems like she's forgotten that it's not her fight. It's Archie's and he lost it months ago.

I think you'll have to find that yourself. I doubt MN would allow those pictures to be hosted here.

@70isaLimitNotaTarget I don't think we've heard anything from him, but the organ donation point is moot anyway.