Page 37 | Archie Battersbee - Thread 4

BreadInCaptivity · 2022-08-02T23:09:56+00:00

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BongoJim · 04/08/2022 08:51

SunflowerGardens · 04/08/2022 08:46

I feel really sad this morning that they are going to put in an attempt to move him. Imagine being moved when you are so very poorly and at the end of your life. I know he has no awareness but it just seems so cruel. And the irony of tried saying they want to move him so he has dignity when he does from the very same people who put out a statement saying 'we don't believe in the concept of dignity in death!'

I'd like to see the headline that they have decided not to go any further and just let him go this morning at hospital. But I know this isn't going to happen because his mother won't let that happen.

WeAreTheHeroes · 04/08/2022 08:51

I believe in science and having read not even half of the legal judgment linked to upthread I understand that this child is not coming back from this. There truly would have to be an unprecedented miracle for him to survive without the very many medical interventions. It is clear that everything in his body is shutting down because his brain is dead. His body cannot process nutrition effectively because of it. To keep this going is pointless and cruel. And it's not about the child any more.

Toddlerteaplease · 04/08/2022 08:53

@drinkingwineoutofamug Children's hospices are slightly different to adult ones. They do take children for end of life care. But most of their work is Redbirds care, and enriching their children's lives. They also for a huge amount of work for parents and siblings. Some children use their services for many years.

picklemewalnuts · 04/08/2022 08:54

To all those who have been in the position of Archie's mum, and made heartbreaking choices-

I can only imagine how distressing this is for you, to see it endlessly discussed, picked over, publicised, argued about, analysed- even without the implied criticism of other people's responses, even if every comment was sensitive and balanced, it must be shockingly hard to be repeatedly thrust back to that situation.

@VeeraTC and everyone else similarly affected. wishing you peace and strength.

OpinionsUnseen · 04/08/2022 08:56

I'd like to see the headline that they have decided not to go any further and just let him go this morning at hospital. But I know this isn't going to happen because his mother won't let that happen. I would like to hope that someone has explained to her that moving him means she won’t be able to spend the time with him that is taken to move him from the hospital equipment, connect him to portable quip my, transfer him in the ambulance etc, and that because of how unstable he is it is very likely he will die during that time, which means he won’t have his family around him.

It’s easy for her to cling on to hope while he is only in one place. But hopefully the reality of what moving him will entail will at least make her stop and question whether this is really a path she wants to take.

Trying2bemum · 04/08/2022 09:01

TheFormidableMrsC · 03/08/2022 23:19

Nearly 3 years my lovely brother suffered a catastrophic rupture of his diaphragm which should have been dealt with via emergency surgery. He was treated very quickly however he contracted sepsis and one by one his organs shut down. As a family we couldn't fathom what we were dealing with. I remember getting a call saying that I needed to go to the hospital immediately as he was critically ill. We'd sat and had a cuppa few days earlier. It wasn't possible. However, he ended up in ICU on life support and it was very very obvious that he wasn't going to recover. My SIL absolutely made the right call with the withdrawal of treatment. They'd been married only five short years. They had a 6 year old daughter. My brother was strong and fit and young. At no point ever did we think that the advice to withdraw treatment was wrong. He wasn't going to wake up. He wasn't going to recover. Of course he could have stayed on support for a long time in the hope of a miracle but it wasn't going to happen. So many other families on that ward in the same position. We had 3 days before the decision was made. That was 3 days too long. I'm a parent, I have a child slightly younger than Archie and last night we had a conversation (along with my adult child) and that was an agreement that none of us would do what has happened to Archie to eachother.

It is an absolutely horrific position to be in but I think that Hollie Dance can't deal with the fact her child didn't want to be here anymore. He's never coming back and believe me, when somebody is in that position, you KNOW they're not coming back. I can't imagine ever prolonging my brother's death. None of us can. He was quite clearly "gone". There wasn't a hint of hope. His medical team were bloody fantastic and sat with me while I showed them pictures of the handsome man living life, not the ghost being kept alive. I will always be grateful to them. I will also always be grateful that they were absolutely frank about everything and we had no reason to doubt as we could see for ourselves. It was the most horrific experience of my life but every decision was the right one and in the best interests of my lovely bro.

I really hope that this little boy retains some dignity going forward. It's time. He needs to be laid to rest. I hope that his parents get the mental health support they so desperately need. I also think that by the grace of God go I that I'm not dealing with that. My adult brother was more than enough for a lifetime. Such a horrific and tragic situation.

I’m so sorry for your loss. This must have been unbearably painful. You all acted with so much love and care. I’m glad the team were so supportive xx

Samcro · 04/08/2022 09:03

i wish his mum would just go and be with him. she is missing time with him to talk to press.

Quia · 04/08/2022 09:10

Ms Dance is still going on this morning about the wrong scans - even her own legal team didn't push that one, and they must have explained to her why. Also that "only" 5 % of his brain is damaged. After three months with no blood supply, it's a certainty that it's 100% damaged. Sadly she is still deep in denial.

MaggieFS · 04/08/2022 09:13

Presumably they will have submitted the request to move to a hospice given what she's been saying to the media?

OrlandointheWilderness · 04/08/2022 09:14

When was the last time he even had a scan? Given the damage and deterioration that was shown then I'd suspect it is far worse now.

User280905 · 04/08/2022 09:14

If I was a hospice manager I would take him if I could. I would want to take the whole family into our hospice and give them space and time and calm, just for a day. So they can say goodbye in a peaceful setting away from the hospital and all its associated memories. I hope that can happen for them. I know it's unlikely though.

Brefugee · 04/08/2022 09:15

*Where is Archies's advocate in all this? For every interview the parents give, he should be offered the opportunity to put forward the the child's POV
How exactly do you think this could be achieved?

my very net sentence was: but i don't know how that could be achieved. Do you think it's ok to have all this stuff spouted all over TV and SM, unchallenged?

I'm not in UK. Children in situations like this are allocated someone to speak for them (ward of court, parents have had their parental rights suspended etc). But I've never seen a case like this where i am so i don't know how it would be handled. Possibly because media aren't allowed to report, IDK.

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 04/08/2022 09:16

KermitlovesKeyLimePie · 04/08/2022 07:18

@loislovesstewie Completely agree.

And the sad fact that it is happening up and down the country to many people and families even as I type this and being done with dignity, privacy, grace and gratitude to the HCP involved.

I hate the thought that even one of those people may be second guessing their decision or thinking that in some way they are "lesser" or failing their loved ones because of the language that has been used in Archie's tragic case.

I have lost sympathy for her. She is not acting in Archie's interest. Her criticisms of everything and everyone are appalling as are the photographs of Archie which she has posted online.

OrlandointheWilderness · 04/08/2022 09:22

User280905 · 04/08/2022 09:14

If I was a hospice manager I would take him if I could. I would want to take the whole family into our hospice and give them space and time and calm, just for a day. So they can say goodbye in a peaceful setting away from the hospital and all its associated memories. I hope that can happen for them. I know it's unlikely though.

Chances are though he wouldn't pass peacefully in a hospice. Chances are he would pass in the back of an ambulance en route if he even got that far, without his family around him.

Redshoeblueshoe · 04/08/2022 09:24

The family have appealed for Archie to be moved

Hilly87 · 04/08/2022 09:25

User280905 · 04/08/2022 09:14

If I was a hospice manager I would take him if I could. I would want to take the whole family into our hospice and give them space and time and calm, just for a day. So they can say goodbye in a peaceful setting away from the hospital and all its associated memories. I hope that can happen for them. I know it's unlikely though.

I'm sure many would, but it's not as simple as that

OpinionsUnseen · 04/08/2022 09:26

This morning and the like should be refusing to speak to holly at this point. It’s atrocious that the media are continuing to feed this circus.

I’m certain that if the media had been prevented from reporting on this case the level of involvement by these unsavoury groups and keyboard warriors wouldn’t have been nearly so high.

OpinionsUnseen · 04/08/2022 09:29

Surely if he were able to be moved this whole cycle could begin again, with legal challenges to prevent the hospice from removing care, and then more appeals to the Supreme Court, the ECHR etc etc and then followed by another challenge to move him abroad and so it goes.

Presumably the high court have the remit here to say no and to deny leave to appeal at the same time?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 04/08/2022 09:29

Thanks for your reply last night, Quia; I hadn't realised that a future action even being mentioned made it count as a "live case" (probably the wrong words, but hopefully you'll see what I mean?)

That seems an odd state of affairs to me, meaning that CLC/Hollie can - and almost certainly will - continue to claim any nonsense purely to delay matters until Archie's body fails on its own, with seemingly nothing to stop them

In which case I wonder what the purpose of all these hearings has been, if the professionals know perfectly well that the courts' decisions can be frustrated at every turn ... and since legal changes have been mentioned, I wonder if the issue of a case being deemed "live" before any formal action's actually been taken might be worth looking at?

Offredismysister · 04/08/2022 09:30

Is a transfer medically safe at this point? I don’t think it is. If it is possible, I really hope the family fully understand it would be so high risk at this point that he may not make it to a hospice.

prh47bridge · 04/08/2022 09:30

User280905 · 04/08/2022 09:14

If I was a hospice manager I would take him if I could. I would want to take the whole family into our hospice and give them space and time and calm, just for a day. So they can say goodbye in a peaceful setting away from the hospital and all its associated memories. I hope that can happen for them. I know it's unlikely though.

The hospital will oppose any move to a hospice. They argue that Archie is unstable and even transferring him a short distance involves significant risk and would hasten his deterioration. It sounds to me like they think there is a good chance he would die in transit and that it would be better for it to happen in the hospital.

Perplexed0522 · 04/08/2022 09:32

Chances are though he wouldn't pass peacefully in a hospice. Chances are he would pass in the back of an ambulance en route if he even got that far, without his family around him

About 16 years ago, when I was training to be a paediatric nurse, I was doing a placement on an Oncology ward. We had a 15 year old girl there who was on end of life care and she was rapidly approaching her final days. She wasn’t ventilated but was very, very sick.

The family said they wanted to take her back home so all her family could be there with her when she died but the hospital said that as it would have been a 5 hour drive, and their daughter was so unstable they wouldn’t recommend it.

They told the parents that they would be happy to accommodate close family coming to the hospital and they would provide a private family room for them all but the parents were adamant they wanted their daughter to die in her own bed in her own home.

The hospital ultimately agreed to the parental request and an ambulance was booked for the next day. Very sadly the girl died in the ambulance whilst
on the motorway about 2 hours into the journey. Thankfully her mum was in the ambulance with her.

It has always stayed with me because I couldn’t help but think how said it was for her to have died in those circumstances.

I would hate the same to happen to Archie which I imagine it would do. I imagine he wouldn’t even make it out the hospital though 😢

CallMeNutribullet · 04/08/2022 09:33

Googleit · 04/08/2022 03:54

I'm finding these posts really difficult to read especially the negative comments about the Christian group supporting the mother. Why shouldn't they? The church has a following of millions around the world. A religion that is based on the belief on a virgin birth and the son of God on earth and other miracles so important to millions in societes around the world ofcourse they should support her.

All the mother seems to want is to give it some more time on the LSM. He is not in pain despite hysterical comments about necrosis. If he is brain dead which they have said is not certain anyway then what is the problem with respecting mothers wish to leave it for another few months or weeks ?

As a tax payer i absolutely support the mother and would expect nothing less than her wishes to be respected. If she thought her child was in pain she would not pursue this I am sure.

The money the Trust has spent on this would have covered the time the mother asked for. Releasing a life support machine for a possible other person is no excuse.
Its nothing more than money in my opinion plus it is important to them to set tthe precedent for future like cases. To make sure everyone knows this door is definitely closed saving on future costs.

Medical evidence can be questioned. for one or even 3 Doctors opinion you will find an equal number with an alternative view with plausble evidence. It doesn't mean they are quacks. Many breakthroughs in science is from questioning the established view.

In my opinion the Trust is wrong to push this through.

Archie is a human being not an emotional support animal for his mother. She doesn't own him.

It IS certain he is brain dead. The MRI scans have shown this. The "hysterical" comments about necrosis reflect the court documents and the findings of 4 additional independent medical experts. Parts of his brain stem are in his lumbar region and necrotic tissue us being suctioned from his lungs.

The only medical "expert" Holly has found to say he's not brain dead is an American quack who doesn't believe in brain stem death and admitted he hasn't even viewed Archie's scans. There isn't a single neurological consultant in the UK who has come forward to offer an alternative opinion of Archie's medical prognosis.

Quia · 04/08/2022 09:36

It's really quite unfair on the medical staff to expect them to accompany Archie to a hospice. They must know the chance of him getting there with a beating heart are close to zero, so they know they are walking into a major crisis with a mother who is in denial and may well accuse them of negligence and murder. Who wants to be the doctor dealing with that?

CallMeNutribullet · 04/08/2022 09:37

I know a lot of people are now criticising the hospital for letting this drag on but I really feel like their hands are tied. Technically they can legally withdraw support now but they leave themselves open to future legal action and to public criticism if they do so while the family are still taking this backward and forward to court.