Baby denied treatment, my heart just broke 💔

[ReelTears]

I struggled to get to the end of this article. We're hearing so much about the plight of the poor Ukrainians at the moment, there are peoples who are also struggling just to physically access basic necessities. I can't imagine watching my baby die because the people enforcing apartheid (as stated by the United Nations) won't give me permission to travel to a hospital where she could be treated. I am heartbroken for this poor little girl and her parents, why aren't we protesting at her treatment, and the similar incidents mentioned here?

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/01/palestinian-baby-dies-after-treatment-delayed-by-israeli-blockade-of-gaza

@pucelleauxblanchesmains absolutely agree on our interfering, and I haven’t laid any blame on the Everyman Israelis, just said I can understand the Palestinians fighting back when they’re annexed from their own land, marginalised, living under sanction, and foreign military control.

I'm interested in your answer to this OP? It goes without saying that it is awful that a little girl died but I'm really unclear as to you are proposing and why you are comparing it to Ukrainian refugees? It seems you are proposing a protest maybe but a protest for what exactly

A protest against apartheid, showing support to Palestinians? They happen regularly. Lots of people care deeply about the war crimes that are taking place there, just like we all do about the ones taking place in Ukraine.

As a PP said, though, people (especially politicians) that speak out against the atrocities committed by the Israeli government are labelled anti-Semitic.

I wonder how the Palestinian people feel seeing the world rally around Ukraine. As they should - we should all stand with nations who are victims of these terrors. But they must be wondering why nobody seems to care about them and their plight.

The issue with the Guardian, bbc etc. is that they rarely provide historical context when reporting on Israel. They ignore the fact that there were once thriving Jewish (and other religious groups) communities all across the Middle East and North Africa in places such as Tehran, Baghdad, Algiers, Morocco etc, and that these communities no longer exist due to pogroms, killings, expulsion and forced conversion.

Finally, in 1948, Jews managed to get a toe hold in The Levant, where they established the state of Israel and could finally be free from the whims and violence of their neighbours. For comparison, Israel occupies 8700 Square miles, much of which was formerly desert, compared to over 2 million Square miles occupied by Muslims and Arabs.

Personally, I really don't blame them for doing whatever it takes to protect their sliver of land. Though it is hard on the people that previously lived there, I suspect they fare better than the Jews did when the boot was on the other foot.

As a pp mentioned, six Israelis were killed in two separate attacks by IS sympathisers this week, which helps to explain restrictions on movement. I don't know if the Graun mentioned this as I don't read it any more.

We're moving this thread to our News section now as we're not really sure what the AIBU element is to this thread..

@SockFluffInTheBath

Because if you criticise the Israeli regime you’re branded anti-Semitic and told you don’t understand. There are charities providing medical care in Palestine (MAP etc) but it’s limited.

I don't think this is true, the first statement. Being anti semitic is being anti Jews, not anti Israel. Not all Jews agree with how Israel have handled the conflict. I am part Jewish, and to me anti semiticism is not the same thing as being critical of how Israel has handled things with Palestine.

There are situations like this all over the world, all the time. It is so sad and unnecessary.

You mean you're interested in the truth that supports Israel?

Nice try to put words into my mouth, IheartJKRowling, but no that's not what I meant at all

Shame, too, that you also ignored my remarks about such as the Mail - a reminder, perhaps, that folk are entitled to their own opinions but not to their own facts

A pro Palestine protest will be a lovely event. I wonder if those nice young men who recently drove around north London yelling “kill the Jews! Rape their women” will be available to attend?

I don't think this is true, the first statement. Being anti semitic is being anti Jews, not anti Israel.

We’re all well aware what it actually means. We’re all well aware of how it’s thrown around as an argument-stopper.

@HermioneWeasley

A pro Palestine protest will be a lovely event. I wonder if those nice young men who recently drove around north London yelling “kill the Jews! Rape their women” will be available to attend?

I’ve been on a few pro Palestinian events in London, despite having no real connection to the cause. IME, they have been lovely, peaceful, inclusive events. On the larger marches you get the few loud crazy people, as happens at every large event with a cause, but they are a tiny minority.

There are always groups of Jewish people showing their support for Palestine and condemning the Israeli government on their banners. The gratitude they get from the majority Muslim people there is huge.

To blame Israel for all the misfortunes of Palestine is just naiive.

Israel is not blamed for ALL the misfortunes of Palestine, just the ones it’s directly responsible for. Which sadly is many.

@FairyCakeWings

Israel is not blamed for ALL the misfortunes of Palestine, just the ones it’s directly responsible for. Which sadly is many.

Perhaps you would like to expand on this statement ?

@SockFluffInTheBath

I don't think this is true, the first statement. Being anti semitic is being anti Jews, not anti Israel.

We’re all well aware what it actually means. We’re all well aware of how it’s thrown around as an argument-stopper.

That might be your perception, or it might have happened on the threads you have been on, but I haven't seen that personally.

I also don't such a trite statement is helpful to what the thread is about, to be honest.

No baby should ever be denied treatment, be that at the hands of a belligerent government, an outright war criminal, or an NHS trust. Sad that there's people/ideologies out there that could make this happen, and in the end it really is about ideology I suppose, whether it's geopolitical, medical or otherwise, we humans always let our opinions and ideas trump our regard for the right to life of other human beings.

Anyway, the Guardian is pretty reputable and generally factual. Just stay away from their opinion journalism, which contains ludicrous missives from man-babies like Owen Jones and other such self proclaimed right-ons

@newhorizons4477

That might be your perception, or it might have happened on the threads you have been on, but I haven't seen that personally.

I also don't such a trite statement is helpful to what the thread is about, to be honest.

If only it were simply trite. When you’re quite done trying to sound clever, many other posters seem to be labouring under the same delusion. Some others have mentioned how it’s a shut-down in political debate (there is a whole world outside of these boards) it’s simply not cricket to criticise Israel.

@SockFluffInTheBath

Because if you criticise the Israeli regime you’re branded anti-Semitic and told you don’t understand. There are charities providing medical care in Palestine (MAP etc) but it’s limited.

This!

@SockFluffInTheBath

Because if you criticise the Israeli regime you’re branded anti-Semitic and told you don’t understand. There are charities providing medical care in Palestine (MAP etc) but it’s limited.

This is so true. Growing up during the PLO era, I thought Palestine was the baddie. Now I know things are a lot more complex and the Palestinians the de facto underdog. America gave 3.8bn to Israel in 2020 and 146bn since WWII, which is an astronomical amount and in real terms it would be a lot more in today’s money. In contrast the US has given 7.8bn to Palestine since 1993. Israel has become disproportionately wealthy.

@SockFluffInTheBath

Because if you criticise the Israeli regime you’re branded anti-Semitic and told you don’t understand. There are charities providing medical care in Palestine (MAP etc) but it’s limited.

This

There are lots of people who care about this but if you talk about it you get slurs thrown at you

@Pebble55

No baby should ever be denied treatment, be that at the hands of a belligerent government, an outright war criminal, or an NHS trust

You are correct - in an ideal world this should not happen.

However we live in an imperfect world.

As regards NHS Trusts you are being incredibly naive. There is an infinite demand for finite resources and sometimes difficult healthcare resource allocation decisions must be made.

So much suffering in so many places.

Life’s not fair.

@Crimesean

Perhaps the Israelis take exception to terrorist activity on their streets.

Yes, of course Israel is perfectly innocent in all this, and are only protecting themselves from terrorists...

Protecting themselves from a country that has vowed to wipe Israel from the face of the earth?

@HermioneWeasley insinuating that a whole group of people are represented by a small minority of bad eggs is a racist trope in itself but I doubt this thread will stay up anyway as this is not a subject in which people are allowed to debate openly.

@Usou the history of any group of people living anywhere on this planet does not justify refusing medical treatment to one baby of any race or creed born in any place on the planet and it is unconscionable to try an argue otherwise.

@JayAlfredPrufrock

So much suffering in so many places.

Life’s not fair.

I agree

And so unnecessary