OK for people to be called Muhammad, but not a teddy bear (not in Sudan anyway)

[WendyWeber]

Poor woman

40 lashes???

I love the calm quote from the Muslim teacher at the school:

"I was just impressed that she got them to vote"

These are 6-7 year-olds, they chose the alternative names and they voted for Muhammad (also the name of the most popular boy in the class apparently) and most of the parents are fine with it - just one fanatic took offence from the sound of it.

She's been jailed - 15 days. here

Pucca, "it was all malicous fun for them." What to be harrassed by these mutawa's? Or do they do it to incite the mutawa's? Who are these mutawa's?

It is just madness. utter madness

When My sister and I visited a Muslim country we sat round the pool in our swim suits (hotel very westenised)but when we went out in to the older parts of town and to the markets we tied our hair back, we wore long trousers and long sleeves.

I think the fact that no one explained to the teacher it was not a good idea, the fact the school head was a back boneless shit and the fact some people are sad/deluded enough to think there was malice in it is just so bloody sad/stupid.

Its a name, and a stuffed toy FFS not the end of the world.
Still I guess some people just like to look for trouble where there is none, and some people are so easily offended makes you wonder just how much faith they have and how much of it is a big stick to beat people with.
I don't remember reading thou shalt not name a teddy after me in any holy book.

mt. mutawas are 'religious police' or nutters really. when out shopping in saudi arabia, simpler to stay away from them.
yes, i am talking about some women deliberatly going infront of these nutters and doing things that will cause such 'incidents'. they are women who are well aware of what they are doing. of the society they have chosen to live in, and doing it for the hell of it anyways. because they want to see people stressed out etc

an equivalent example would be a couple of christian girls going into church in bikinis, and then making out in the middle of a sermon in full view of everyone. it would be difficult to believe that they didnt know that its unacceptable behaviour.

or american women driving in saudiarabia. it is against the law to drive there. it is not up to them to disregard a law just because in their countires it is allowed. if somethig is illegal, then it is illegal. in this country it is illegal to drive above 30 miles per hour, you cant tell the judge, o, in my country i am allowed to, so you should change the laws to accomodate my ignorance.

sorry gone on a bit there. but that was in answer to monkeytrousers.
i feel very very sad that this poor woman has becomeembroiled in this political game of football

i am intrigued by these women pp. So what things are they doing to cause other people stress? And surely the greatest stress will be caused to them, if they get sentenced to 40 lashes or whatever?

just things like going shopping to a shopping mall, with either no abaya on, or open abaya and blond hair blowing in the wind and walking towards the mutawas to incite them to say something to them, and for them to then complain loudly that they are being victimised for being western americans, and what a dumbass country this is that is suppressing women etcetcetc. creating huge scenes, and then walking away, usually unscathed, or even more fun for them, being arrested etc so that even more fun can be had. theyo know they will walk away from it all. and they know perfectly well what is and isnt ok in that country, because these samewomen, who when they want to do their shopping, will happily tie a scarf round their heads perfectly well, don an abay buttoned up properly and just quitly get on with their shopping when they want to.

they give westerners a bad name.

so the loony police choose to get stressed by these attention seekers then?

they must be really bored...

If her action was so naive, why didn't somebody in the school alert her to her error - did she write the letter to the parents herself?

Jesus is quite a common name for men in some parts of the world (Latin America?). I don't know if many teddy bears are called Jesus, but I don't see why not.

little bella, loonypolice are loony

Loads of people called Jesus and loads of people called Mohammed on facebook.

yes mp, but did their mothers say ' muhammad why have you poohed in your nappy again. your a big grown up boy now!'
my guess is no. they are probly called muhammed firstname surname. and actually referred toa s firstname.

I think it sounds a bit odd the way the school are behaving tbh.

That statement from the Headmaster (which granted, could be under duress, he has to disntance himself from her otherwise the screaming mob might turn up at his house) plus the fact that it was a colleague who reported her (Jesus, it makes you grateful for your own colleagues), makes me wonder if there was some kind of tension at the school about her being there at all.

well everyone used to call Muhammed Ali Muhammed.

And I definitely remember a boy in my road when I was a kid being called Mohammed. And loads of Turkish boys called Mehmet.

Is this a new thing, Mohammeds not being allowed to be called Mohammed anymoer? Or is it just among certain nationalities?

Pukkapatch, is it Ok to call adults Mohammed, or is it rude to call anybody Mohammed? I used to work with two 'Mohammeds'. One was always called Mohammed, but the other was also called by his middle name. Is it just the context that makes it rude to call a child Mohammed?

I don't think it's at all equivalent - any law that oppresses women is wrong! It cannot be equated to the speed limit.

Isn't what these women are doing called 'direct action' here. Isn't it a legitaimate and immutable human right here? I know it isn't there, but that's not to say it shouldn't be.

Harrass the Mutawas, by any means, harrass them, I say.

Is this the same idea that punishes a womam raped for having her head uncovered?

You know what really really makes my blood boil is that with all what is going on in Sudan at the moment and they (the Sudanese govt)are making a big fuss over all this??! Get a grip!!!!

I'm a Muslim, I know a lot of Muhammads/Mohammads and its seen as an honour to call your son after the prophet (peace be upon him). Calling a teddy bear Muhammad is probably not the most culturally sensitive of things to do but lets face it, a class of young kids chose the name - they are too young really to know any different and the teacher probably thought it would be ok to go along with it. Its absolutely bloody ridiculous and am sick of a few fanatics giving the rest of us Muslims a bad name!

MrsClausinJimmyChoos, I flippin' well bet you are. It is just a bit bonkers. There was an Imam on the BBC saying she should be released immediately, and he sounded very reasonable.

For the record, I'm a Christian who doesn't believe in having pictures of Jesus, so I do understand the fact that some Muslims may be a little put out by it, but seriously, it's the epitome of making a yourself a mockery.

in certain parts of the world, it is not ok to call boys and men muhammad, in others it is perfectly acceptable.

no mt, what you are saying is not an immutable human right. there are very very few such rights. think of the hooha on mumsnet every time anyone mentions human milk as an immutable human right
and actually driving is a perfect analogy. it is ILLEGAL for women to drive there. whether that law is right or wrong is not up to the women to decide. if it is something enshrined in the laws of the land, then it has to be obeyed by everyone. just as in this country muslim men cannoth have more than one wife, because it is illegal for them in this land.
the old saying , when in rome, do as the romans do is usually best when living in another country. even if we think there laws are loony.
what these women, fortunatly only a small minority, but a very loud and vocal minority, do is rude. obnoxious. disrespectful to themselves and the people whose country they are living in.. etc etc etc. i cant think of enough negative words righ tnow.

(I didn't mean you were making yourself a mockery, btw, MrsClaus, just the Sudanese courts and the oddbods who 'turned her in')

I shouldn't get mad this time of night...I won't sleep!! lol!! Its Crookshanks btw....had a festive name change...see! Muslims can get into the spirit (not to mention expense!!!) of Christmas

would you suggest that immigrants go out and start harassing bnp activists?
not a smartmove.

I harass BNP activists. And people who wear orange. I have a very interesting social life.

I havent read the whole thread. Anyway this women is not going to get lashed. She will be sent back home and I hope she is pleased about that. I wouldnt like to go into a muslim country to teach children unless I was very clued up to the culture and religion.

Would anyone even in UK like a teddy sent home with a religious named attached to it?

waves at Crookshanks

I know, worst thing to do before bed - debate!