Fran Lyon has left the country

[milliec]

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Quote from POsen, 'something about her doesn't ring true though, she is really intelligent, and articulate'

ooh, don't we just hate those sorts of women. Just look at the smears against Kate McCann.

Hi Posen,

My parents are not together no, but I'm not sure how that's relevant. My Mum is indeed caring for her elderly and quite unwell father.

Yes - I could blank out large portions of the SS report and place online what is about me. I wonder what I'd say though when people started saying "well, we don't know what's in the blanked out portions". There is also very little in the reports that pertains solely to me - most of it is historical, and whilst I won't go into details about it, abuse is not an experience one goes through alone and hence other people are identified.

It's also true to say that I don't have all the documentation in relation to the case. I can't release what I don't have.

Fran

i'm sorry it was an invasive question. i wondered if that may be the reason your mum is not involved.
i am worried about the following inconsistencies
1 you have said that there is NOTHING in the social services reports which you are keeping from public scrutiny when it is clear that the crux of the argument about whether to remove your baby lies in the belief that socialservices are worried that your frequent emergency admissions in to hospital may suggest you suffer from munchausen's. i don't think you've stated that on here but this was what they said on trevor mac last night.
2 you sai that ss were allowed to release details of the reports and you have given them permission to do so, well if this is the case, and the reports contain info that involves others and this is why you don't want it releasing then why have you given ss permission to release the reports?
3 ss aren't allowed to release the reports it seems yet even with top legal team etc etc and a brain the size of northumberland you told us that they were allowed to.

i sound horrible don't i? i'm really sorry fran, i'd just like you to clear it up because these things nag me. i still believe like i said that you and your baby should be given your chance together.

Hi Highlander,

The rape allegation did not result in a conviction because the man concerned killed himself shortly before it went to court. The CPS however did see fit to bring the case, and it was substantiated by 4 other women who had reported nigh on identical experiences.

If Northumberland Social Services had other evidence on which they basing their actions they did not ever disclose it to me or my legal team. Nor, in the face of repeated recommendations from professionals that they instructed did they change their plans.

I have no relationship with my father and have not done so for some time (years). I do not know where he is, and nor do I particularly care. I have moved on with my life, and I hope for his sake he has moved on with his.

There was nothing "going on in the background" when I called the police about my ex. I discovered some wholly alarming and frightening behaviour and did what I felt was right in order to protect myself and Molly. Until I have the consent of those involved I will not say more - however it should be suffice to say that no-one (including SS) other than my ex has questioned the validity of that decision.

I think, and this is just my personal opinion, that I am perfectly within my rights to harness whichever fora I might choose in order to protect my child - as you so rightly point out, it was her life at stake.

Your questions are not unfair, or crass. They are inevitably intrusive, but then I opened myself up to that, and can't really complain about it now! Besides, I'd much rather people asked me straight out! I actually quite appreciate that throughout this you've been so direct.

Hope this helps,

Fran

At the risk of telling you how to live your life............ I am in part saying this as I too have experience of having a baby overseas, with no familial support.

You are damn bright and articulate. You've overcome a lot of adverstiy in your life and have 'achieved' a considerable amount. Your charity work, higher education etc etc.

Having a baby is going to be an overwhelming shock for you. There's no manual, no easy answer to the screaming, lack of sleep (despite the plethora of baby 'manuals' out there!). For someone who's used to using their head to solve problems the sheer primitiveness (if such a word exists) of caring for an infant can seem overwhelming and impossible. It doesn't matter how bad a day you are having, how tired and sore you are - your needs will always come last, and may not be met at all.

I note you said you've identified a 'therapist' in your new country. You'll need a lot more than that. You're at high risk for PND and I hope your obstetric team have discussed a potential mangament and support plan for that. You're going to need someone that you can honestly open up to, with reproach or comeback. Without that, you will struggle, and when you struggle your baby is at risk from neglect and abuse.

I do wish you the very best. I hope to God that your story rings true and you both get the support you need.

Hi Posen,

No - you don't sound horrible at all!

1. I have been through the Munchausen's issue many, many times.

To lay it out clearly though:

• I have never been diagnosed with Munchausen's

• I have specifically (and recently) NOT been diagnosed with munchausen's

• I do have regular admissions to hospital for Angioedema - this is a relatively recent diagnosis and explains previous concerns about my medical history when considered retrospectively. This diagnosis has been confirmed by independent medics.

• even if I did have munchausen's there would still be no evidence to suggest that it would translate into MSbP (see Adshead and Bass, Advances in Psychiatric Treatment, "The psychopathology of abuse")

1. SS have been told they can comment on "the individual case" as far as I am concerned - obviously if in commenting they wanted to release information pertaining to others they would need their consent too.

1. It was my understanding that they could release more information than they have. I've only been told on MN that they can't (no disrespect intended here, just I haven't had it confirmed by anyone else).

1. I assure you my brain is of a perfectly normal size.

Fran

And I note that you've chosen Scandanavia - countries who all feature very highly on the UNICEF child welfare index. The UK coming bottom, of course

excellent. when i read the DM article, i expected Scandanavia.

thankyou for replying. i believe you that you have never been diagnosed with munchausen's, but my point is that according to the trev mac prog last night the route of ss worries is a belief that you may have it (regardless of how wrong or foundless this is) and the reason they think this is bcause of your repeated admissions in to a and e due to your illness.
is this right?

I saw the programme yesterday and whilst before it I was always a bit doubtful about all of that and had unexplainable niggles about this whole thing, the programme , for whatever reason, has made me sway big time in my opinion, maybe because it made Fran a real person, iykwim.
Anyway, Fran I do hope you will be able to build yourself a new life, wherever you are, and that you and little Molly are safe!
I am very sorry that you have had to leave teh country to feel safe.

Highlander, there's nothing wrong with you trying to warn Fran about what the worst might be, but you know, not everyone experiences early parenthood like that.

hmm, but not everyone has a history of depression, self-harm and is overseas without family or a partner to share the load.

Hi Highlander,

Thank you. And I don't think you are telling me how to live my life!

For all I may come across as "scientific" or "rational" I'm not devoid of a rather more human side! I'm aware that the primitive nature of giving birth and nurturing a newborn will be a huge shock, and probable strain. I also know though that whilst it might not be a lexicon I am as comfortable using there is more spiritual, innate or intuitive side to me - and I'm sure that is side of me I will come to develop and learn more about.

My past diagnoses don't put me at increased risk for PND - though my environment may well do. All I can do is be vigilant and ensure that if I am struggling I ask for help immediately rather than trying to carry on alone. I am greatly fortunate that there are people in my life that I can open up to without fear of judgment or reproach. I am sure that I will be in need of those honest conversations more than ever over the coming months and years.

I don't want an easy answer, and I don't expect there to be one. I do however want a chance to love and care for my daughter, and give her the very best I can. As I'm sure every first time mum to be worries, I worry whether I'll be good enough, whether I'll make the right decisions, whether I'll cope. All I can is honestly and sincerely try my best, be open to the possibility that I will need some support and not fall into the trap of castigating myself for not attaining perfection.

Thanks,

Fran

thankyou for replying. i believe you that you have never been diagnosed with munchausen's, but my point is that according to the trev mac prog last night the route of ss worries is a belief that you may have it (regardless of how wrong or foundless this is) and the reason they think this is bcause of your repeated admissions in to a and e due to your illness.
is this right?

Hi Posen,

Last post - and then I must dash...will answer others later!

I've no idea what the root of the SS worries were - their grounds for their actions were one of the many questions to which I never received a coherent response. If it was the Munchausen's/MSbP issue then they should have accepted the reports which told them that was tosh, and also the accepted academic view that you cannotpredict MSbP behaviour in a first time mother.

Thanks,

Fran

sprogs awake. have to go.

fran, i know you don't need to convince me, but i wish you would. i'm just saying that i think you have been inconsistent. of course they can't predict msbc behaviour, it's a ridiculous situation and utter madness that they think they can.
it has been reported that the reason ss are concerned about you is because of the repeated admissions in to a & e, but when i ask you about this you are pretty much refusing to answer my question, i guess it makes you uncomfortable. i'm not suggesting you have munchausen's of course i'm not, i'm just saying that it looks like ss think you have because for whatever reason they don't believe that your repeated emergency admissions are legitimate. all i'm trying to do is ask you about this and find out if you are being entirely straight about this on here.
how many times have you been amitted to hospital as an emergency admission in the last 4 years? how many times since you found out you were pregnant?
surely if the trevor macdonald programme found out that the reason ss think you have munchausens tis becuse of these repeated hospital admissions, then this is something you have been made aware of. itis something that bugs me, that's all. i wish you'd give me a straight answer. sorry to be pushy. sure you have far more important things on your mind sorry

Angelina Jolie has a history of eating disorders and self harming and drugs and is estranged from her family. Hasn't stopped her from being able to adopt (!!!) all over the world. Why is one standard being applied to Fran and another to her (and others)?

posen fran did answer you.

I do have regular admissions to hospital for Angioedema

I just watched the program, she now has a tube in her throat to help her breathe, because of this angioedema

Posen I think you are being unusually harsh towards Fran in your line of questioning, this is not a court of law FFS but a support thread for Fran!

IF you had bothered to read all the previous threads & answers Fran has given,(some in direct reply to your questions) you will see she acknowledges that SS were wary of her repeated hospital admissions as no diagnosis had been brought. However very recently( as stated in the TM show las night) a diagnosis was finally made of angiodema which is why Fran has a permanent tracheostomy as there is a real risk of her throat tissues swelling up when she has an "attack"-previously resulting in A&E admissions.

I didn't read this particular thread as a support thread for Fran Lyon bossybritches, I read it as a statement that she had left the country, and consequent to her leaving, people interested enough are asking questions, and one of those is posen.

Sorry cods x-post cos I take so long to type!

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are you just Aunty Cod?

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