Today's the day! What's your prediction - Bush or Kerry?

[tex111]

Unfortunately I think Bush will win again. I think the latest Bin Laden tape will actually help him and make the difference. What do you guys think?

I have wondered whether he would distance himself from Bush for political self-preservation. It almost seems as though he would have to. At least that's the impression from this side of the Atlantic. Having said this, it's almost as if Bush has something on Blair (although I know that's ridiculous) by the way that Blair has continued to support him.

I've thought the same thing Jabberwocky! I guess we'll never know the whole story or what Tony is really thinking. Shame.

It is a shame. Before all of the Iraq mess, dh and I actually wanted to campaign for Blair as president since he can speak in complete sentences. Now, though, hardly much difference between the two is there?

Blair was torn - he wanted Kerry because of course, the Democrats = left-of-centre (like the Labour party) - but without Bush, Blair would have been a stuck on his own, as the only leader left on the world scene that backed/went to war in Iraq.

As it is, Blair is probably pleased that Bush is in office because at least he has someone who won't slag him off about Iraq, and who can (hopefully) stick it out in Iraq until some order is restored.

However, Blair is a bit stuck on the climate change issue - the UK is about to chair the G8 summits, and Bush doesn't believe in global warming as a result of carbon emmissions, so doesn't give a toss about these issues, which Blair will have to convince him about. To be honest, this will probably be Blair's biggest challenge, and will probably be the issue that will drive a wedge between Blair and Bush.

Ahh, good point. BTW it adds insult to injury to have a president who "doesn't believe in" global warming. Of course, as we all know, what he actually doesn't believe in are the lower corporate profits that will result from the regulations needed to curb it.

How true. It's money that rules the world. Probably always has done.

The worst part about the elections (if it could get any worse) is the representation in the house and senate. Rep. have the majority and now they will be able to reek havock on the world without so much as a debate about it. That is what we should be frightened about.

Believe me I shake in my shoes just to think about it! And now that Bush feels he has a "mandate from the people" along with his puppet Frist in the Senate, grrrr.

One interesting bit of gossip I heard is that Frist is not planning to run for re-election. Could it be that politics was not what someone who didn't vote until his 30's (shock) expected? I reckon being a millionaire doctor is more fun.

i know it's probably dangerous to source most of my knowledge about this from the sunday times, but there was another interesting article in there yesterday. It was by simon sharma (sp), you know, the bloke who presents all those Ch4/BBC2 history programmes. He lectures and lives in the us. He said that he went to do a lecture in one of the mid-west states (i think)- bush country and very regligious - which is very different to the environment he usually works in - new hampshire. It was all very picket fence and whitewashed churches, stars and stripes on every building, etc. After the lecture he was talking to some very charming and polite teachers who told him - to his horror- that history and social sciences are taught by the athletics coach or similar in many school like theirs as they are not seen as very important subjects.

just though I would add that to the comments already made about the teaching (or not) of evolution in high schools.

scary

der - religious - but i think you probably got the gist

Dear dear... those stories about high school style of education really scare me, what can we expect then from the American of the future???

I think that is a very accurate statement. I can remember the coaches teaching those classes when I lived in a small town in the south for junior high school. Now, when we moved to a larger town (about 25,000 pop.) the coaches were not teaching classes other than the athletic/P.E. ones. Nowadays there is a large movement to private schools, at least here in the south. Only problem with that is that most of them are religious. DH has agreed with me that we will have to relocate when ds gets older as I cannot tolerate the thought of either 1)poor public education or 2) religious brainwashing.

The consensus among our friends is that it will be well into our children's lifetime before we can get this country moved even back towards the center, much less a little to the left.

Moomin, in high school I loved history and wanted to be a history teacher to be told by my mother (a teacher) that those subjects were taught by coaches. My high school's world history course was one one the toughest courses in the school... I left after half a year to do a year in Oz and when I came back they had censured him and made it pathetic.

American history was a joke. I learned that from my family.

how can pupils/students possibly learn how to make informed decisions about the world they live in (both on a small/personal or large/world scale) if they do not have the information and resources to do so?

answer: they can't

people complain about education in the uk these days and have the opinion that the world would be a better place if pupils just shut up and learned by rote as generations did in the past.
i'm a teacher of secondary schoool kids. on one hand, i do think kids are too eager to answer back and not accept authority but, when i see what is going on in high schools in the US, I'm GLAD that our education system encourages pupils to question and challenge; to discuss and debate.
it's nothing short of brainwashing what i've read about some US schools here ... how is that indicative of a democracy?

I honestly think that the US is a democracy in name only. There is still a strong feeling that the voting was rigged in certain places and NPR had some worrisome stories before the election (I think it was on This American Life, not sure).

So, what do you call a country that has strong religious fundamentalism, censureship in schools (not just on the textbooks, but things like Harry Potter, too!), questionable voting practices, and the arrest of people wearing anti-government t-shirts at political rallies?

I have to admit that I haven't lived in the States for over a decade, just visit about once a year and obviously know lots of Americans. I think things have changed since I was a teenager. Yes, history and government were taught by coaches but some of them really got into it and I felt like I did learn something, if only to take the initiative to look behind the facade and draw my own conclusions. I remember one coach explaining point by point why our textbook was wrong. I think that was about how WWII started.

I had some of the typical stuff too. I remember one coach picking up the front of my desk and dropping it because I asked why there weren't more women in our history books. His response was that women hadn't done anything historical! I wasn't happy with his reply and said so. Hence, the desk dropping.

And it was a teacher who really changed my life. Granted, she was the French teacher and was well-travelled so perhaps had a clearer view of the world. I know if I had never been in her class I would probably have just settled for my last boyfriend before DH and be very unsatisfied with my life. I guess it's always a bit of a lottery with teachers but they're certainly not all Bible thumping creationists (yet).

Oh my God, look at this

that's one for michael moore to look at maybe?!

on the subject of being well-travelled, etc. There's a statistic somewhere about how many american citizens actually have a passport isn't there? (it's very low)
Could this have something to do with the holidays working people are entitled to, as it's far far lower in the us than in europe. therefore, not many people in the us get to travel widely until they are retired. Not using this as an excuse but may help build on the inwards-facing attitude of many; that there's is the only country that matters as they don't get to see (and experience through other means now, it would seem) other cultures and countries, their people and their customs. there's not really much you can do about this apart from to make sure that the other means of experience, e.g. books, tv, films, education is as wide and as accurate as possible, and i think this thread tells us that this just isn't going to happen.

in RE in this country now, kids are taught about every mainstream religion, whatever their own faith and i strongly believe that this promotes understanding and empathy with other people in our community. it seems almost criminal what's happening in some us schools. It's like animal farm!!

Moomin, it's 20% of Americans that have a passport and they only get 10-15 days holiday a year. I think that the country is so large and diverse that many people consider travelling within the US itself to be exotic. I think if Americans got to know their own country better (Southerners visiting New England and vice versa, etc) that would help too. My sister and I once worked out that I was closer to New York city in London than she was in Texas!

I think the religious studies here are fantastic. I don't understand why we can't fo that in the States. OK, so they don't want to teach evolution as the 'answer' but they could teach it alongside creationism and other beliefs. Why choose to teach nothing rather than just offering a varied view. It's so blinkered.

Jaberwocky, just looked at your link. Oh. My. God.

Isn't that scary? (the link) It's as if all that seperates the US from, say, Afghanistan is money and technology.

Moomin, excellent point about travel by Americans outside the US. I have to say that, until recently I fell into the statistic of not having enough vacation. I actually got a passport in my hopeful twenties and it expired (10 years!) before I got a chance to use it. At least I get a bit more time now. DH and I have been talking about getting ds abroad starting fairly soon to introduce him to other cultures. I enjoyed reading about diverse peoples when I was younger but if we could expose him firsthand that would be infinitely better.

on a lighthearted note
sorry everybody

I just heard on the news last night that the Green Party candidate and Ralph Nader are raising the money required to get a recount in Ohio. A friend also told me that Iowa has not actually been called officially yet, although I have not had a chance to confirm this. Dare we hope?

I thought once the opposition concedes that's it regardless?

I wondered about that and guess I really should know. Ah well, hope springs eternal.