Guardian story - teacher has resigned :-(

[auntyspan]

I'm so furious. Someone who used to teach me has had to resign due to a scuffle involving a year eleven lad. The pupil apparently called him something racist and shoved him and when the teacher pushed him back he fell over, and consequently it's classed as an assault.

I'm appalled that a teacher of his calibre, experience and principals has had to resign. This kid has been in stacks of trouble, is a known trouble-maker and a bully, and is laughing about the fact he got a teacher 'sacked'.

This teacher is exactly the decent type of teacher I want teaching my kids - good disciplinarion and someone who genuinely cares about the kids. A rash moment has ruined his career.

very cross at the moment.

Have not read all the thread as I am on a quick skive from report writing (again but only 15 to go )but as a teacher you juts should not hit or shove a pupil, you are a proffessional and they are children, I know they can push you to the edge, I found myself hissing through my teeth at my year 8s today.

But this particular case aside teachers have no real rights and and guilty until proven innocent when it comes to pupil assault. I teach in a school where there is a worrying trend for false accusations, in the past week a student slammed a door shut on a teachers arm and when he realised that this could end in his permanent exclusion he then got on the floor, grabbed his arm and started to accuse the teacher of assault. Everyday in our school we take the chance that a malicious aligation will mark the end of our careers. I know of a teacher who is trapped in a job he hates as he has so called "soft information" on his file which is an unproven allegation from a student known for aking false allegations.

so write to the school involved. show your support for the teacher.
write to your mp
write to the newspaper.
tell everyone how crap this is. dont just talk about it on mumsnet.

There was a report in our local paper earlier this year which showed how common assuaklt is. It stated that in Sheffield alone 4 teachers a week reported a physical or serious verbal assualt on them by a pupil. Now imagine how many unreported there were on top of that too - it is definitely not unusual at all sadly

I am not just talking about it on mumsnet I have ensured that the boy was dealt with and he has been withdrawn from mainstream education.

But particularly for young teachers who can feel intimidates by SMT or their lack of experience leads them into dangerous territory it can be difficult. I was sexually assaulted in my first year of teaching as I had not established firm boundaries and it all got out of hand. The boy involved was excluded for about a week and then came back to my class. I was a naive wet behind the ears teacher who allowed that to happen - I would not now.

I also lost a baby after being thrown against a fence while trying to stop a fight, this was in a school where SMT bullied into the ground anyone who went to their unions or let slip to the public the reality of their "beacon status " school. The head drove ( and a well known repsected head) 2 union reps to a nervous breakdown. I started to mount charges against the school and was even approached by a journalist I knew about the school but in my last few weeks of the school I was bullied relentlessly. I was being over monitored, records were kept on my of every misdemeanor, my classes became full of unteachable kids so I was permanently stressed and if there was a shit job to do it was given to me. I fell pregnant again and was so scared I would loose the baby again I negotiated my way out of my contract for my silence. Not the right thing to do but considering that while this was going on I was also having a very turbulent homelife understandable.

I was accused of assaulting a pupil last year and called my union in within minutes of it happening and took legal advice but I knew that without witnesses there was not much I could do, luckily someone in the class admitted it was nonsense.

I know of education authorities where it is in your contract not to go to the press about school matters or you can be immediatly dismissed for gross misconduct. I am not sure if this would stand up in court as surely we have the same rights and responsibilities as the general public to report wrong doing, but the very fact it is there would put teachers of from whistle blowing. Once that has happened it can be very difficult to get another job.

My union in my school is actually very supportive, the teacher I mentioned above who had his arm slammed in a door was a cover assistant and therefore not a qualified teacher and not in a union.

If a pupil assaulted me as an experienced teacher I would go straight to the police, no questions asked and no chances for excuses.

We are not doing young people any favours by allowing them to think they can act like thugs.

rant over!

If you wonder why a school can't retain staff it will be because of weak management who don't support the staff but adopt a 'child centred' approach to the exclusion (no pun) of all else. My dh still teaches in a challenging school because he likes teaching the tough nuts but it is a well run school and that makes all the difference.

That wasn't a rant, twinset, you have every reason to be fired up about it.

Your experiences have been awful

I don't think that an eleven year old should be able to assault their teachers, nor do I think teachers should have to put up with it. Having said that as adults we should be able to show more cnstraint than an eleven year old and shoving him so hard that he fell over does seem a bit out of control to me. I don't think he should have been fired but suspended maybe, the pupil as well.

I know of a teacher who was sacked for slapping a 14yr old around the face. You say there is no excuse for hitting a child ever?? Well this 'child' came up behind his teacher and held a bunsen burner to his arm! The teacher was so shocked he reacted by slapping him.

The boy was suspended for 3 days and the science teacher was fired.

It's almost impossible for those who do not work in schools to concieve of just how much intimidation can be brought to bear on teachers by SMT.

The prevailing culture is "If there is an incident, it was your poor teaching that brought it about". Just last week I had to wade in and break up a full on riot that was forming outside my classroom. It was caused by a stray student wandering down a coridoor, poking his head into a classroom and insulting a student. The insulted student lept up and chased the rude one out, laying into him. The whole class followed out and a riot nearly started. What was the poor classroom teacher supposed to do? These are 18 year old lads who are known to carry knives. She could not physically hold back the flow. What was SMT's response to her? "You should have had a more entertaining lesson." To your average 18 year old, a punch up is always more interesting than class.

School ratings are based in part on the number of exclusions. In order to appear to potential parents as a 'good' school, there is intense pressure to keep exclusions, internal and permanant, as low as possible. There are two ways of doing this. Either you have a zero tolerance approach to behaviour management, which involves masses of paperwork, irate parents and a large number of initial exclusions and appeals, or you bury your head in the sand and pretend it isn't happening. Denying anything untoward happens is by far the easiest route. Blaming the teachers and bullying them into withdrawing allegations is common. Its easier to get rid of a teacher than it is to get rid of a student these days.

I've had chairs thrown at me the week after a miscariage, knives pulled on me, threats of physical, verbal and sexual violence and the occasional punch thrown in my direction. I once had a student flounce out after being told off, trip over his ever-so-trendy-low-slung-jeans, fall flat on his face and report me to management for assult even though the entire class saw I was nowhere near pushing range. The fact is, a significant minority of students have never had to face any consequences for their actions. They are very aware of their rights but have no concept of responsibilities.

agree 100%

But yu can't compare a shve from an 11 year old and a knife weilding 18 year old

I sympathise hugely with teachers who face intimidation and violence. I'm not a teacher, but I've faced my fair share of intimidation and violence.

However it all becomes rather dubious when the response to a child striking an adult is "these dangerous little bastards, bring back the birch, there was a time you could leave your doors open you know", and the response to an adult hitting a child is "well, he was driven to it, he was a decent man, went skiiing in the Alps on his wife's birthday three years on the trot"

It's wrong Greensleeves. No doubt about it. And disciplinary action should be taken against him.

Teachers are not allowed to hit children. Nor should they be.

And my response to children hitting teachers is not "bring back the birch"

I wasn't addressing you in particular, just commenting on the general attitudes prevalent in the media/publically as I interpret them.

and for what it is wirth I don;t think that any teacher on this thread, or any parent on this thread has suggested that we should bring back the birch.

But something must be done to make sure that teachers and other staff in schools can work in safety. Beacsue at the moment many schools are not safe for staff.

And most worrying is that they are thus not safe for the children either.

"bring back the birch" was meant to denote an attitude which I think is pretty heavily in evidence both on MN and elsewhere - when a seemingly decent/upstanding/pillar-of-the-community teacher loses his temper and raises his hand to a child in his care, the protestations against his dismissal carry a strong undertone of "it's the only language these little savages understand". I find it very distasteful. If it was a stepfather who had seen red and hit a child like this, MN would be baying for blood.

I don't think that hat he did was right either, and said as much in my (first I think) post.

I'm not convinced that the school he used to work in will be a better place now that he has gone. In part because of the message that is is sending to disruptive students in the school. Already students in schools feel that they are 'untouchable' in terms of dicipline. This will add to their conviction.

and no-one has suggested tha it is the 'only language that they understand' and if you think that I feel that way I am somewhat insulted.

I rather think that if someone had held a bunsen burner to my arm a quick slap would have been the least they would have got.

I'm not sure anyone has advocated a return to corporal punishment just requested support both from SMT and parents. If one of my children assaulted a teacher and was just excluded for the day, I would be seriously pissed off at the message that sent out to them. Also, and I say this hand on heart, if (at 15/16) my son had assaulted a teacher and that teacher had retaliated with either a single slap or a push or shove then I would deem that perfectly reasonable.

I most definitely don't think think that "bring back the birch" is the answer and I sincerely hope you don't believe that I, as a professional, would have that thought. I'd would be offended as I feel I have never given off that air. I don't think any of the teachers have said anything like that here wither.

But something needs to be done.

.