Guardian story - teacher has resigned :-(

[auntyspan]

I'm so furious. Someone who used to teach me has had to resign due to a scuffle involving a year eleven lad. The pupil apparently called him something racist and shoved him and when the teacher pushed him back he fell over, and consequently it's classed as an assault.

I'm appalled that a teacher of his calibre, experience and principals has had to resign. This kid has been in stacks of trouble, is a known trouble-maker and a bully, and is laughing about the fact he got a teacher 'sacked'.

This teacher is exactly the decent type of teacher I want teaching my kids - good disciplinarion and someone who genuinely cares about the kids. A rash moment has ruined his career.

very cross at the moment.

Kathy - teachers do not have less redress than any other profession . assault , racial abuse is a criminal offence , it doesn't matter who is the victim.

A police officer has every right to make a complaint that someone has assaulted them - or racial abused them It is not a sign of weakness in any profession.

It might be part of your job to control a class but being assaulted I dont think is on the job description. Assauilt is a criminal offence no matter who is assaulted and where.

It's wrong. No-one has said it isn't.

But just as I think a child shouldn't be taken into care because their parent loses their rag once, I'm not sure a teacher should necessarily lose their career either.

I say necessarily, because I think a really serious assault would be grounds for dismissal. But I don't know how severe this was.

Captain Underpants - yes, in theory, but we all know that in practice, whether or not a prosecution is successfully pursued has a lot to do with how seriously the police take your complaint, how willing witnesses (in this case likely to be colleagues or managers) are to testify on your behalf, etc.

it makes me laugh.

My 8 year old has been taking physical abusive from another boy in his class since reception, has also done this to several other puils. Yet when it comes to discipline he gets a telling off, some lost play and at the most 2 days suspended.

Everyone should have the right to retaliate if someone is physically provoked from someone with equal physical abilities...and if the bully comes off worse...tough.

But noooo!!!!! The teacher lost it with a boy who is clearly a pain in everybodys arse. Good on him.

I am tired of bloody bullies laughing in the face of decent people that dare to stand up and give it back.

If you make a complaint to the police about an assault it has to be investigated - the Crown Proescution Service will be the ones to decide whether service there is a prosecution as in all investigations .

All I am hearing are excuses for teachers not taking a stand themselves. You have to make a stand as obviuosly no one esle will do it on your behalf.

I heard from a friend that an aggressive and violent father stormed into the school to redress some perceived wrong to his son. He swore and lunged at my friend's father, who is the headteacher. Instead of taking it the head hit back, one punch, hard. The police refused to take action against the head as they agreed that it was self defence. The head and his staff haven't had trouble with ghastly violent parents since.

Not very pc but sometimes needs must!

This happened to my Maths teacher a few years ago (i read it in the newspaper and i already had left school) that he slapped one of the pupils for whatever reason it was..cant remember..he was suspended and he managed to get his job back cos the school kids wanted him back cos he teaches the top class pupils and he is good preparing them for GCSE's.

So he was lucky

I have been assualted by a pupil whilst at work. I was 7 months pregnant at the time. The 13 year old boy stood up, slammed his chair into my tummy, stormed out of the room and smashed two windows on his way out.

What had I done to provoke him? I politely asked him to get on with his work. I did not shout. I didn't even raise my voice.

His punishment? 2 days out of school. No apology. He was back in my class the following lesson the next week, laughing at what he had done.

School support: Ha ha ha ha ha! Yeah right. I know enough of schools that schools like to keep it all "in house". It was very clear very quickly that taking firther action was not going to be an easy option. School closes rank very much, like to pretend it didn't happen. The head didn't even come to see if I was okay. No one in senior management did. DH, a solicitor, wanted to press charges. I was 7 month's pregnant. I didn't have the strength at the time to take it all on. I went on maternity leave earlier than planned. It was the easiest option.

dh's best man was a supply teacher. A pupil was creating in class, he took the boy outside for a word. The boy pushed him, he grabbed the boy by the collar of his coat (which he freely admits he should never have done). The boy went to the police and alleged he had hit him, and then sold his story to the Mail. dh's best man was arrested, had press outside his door, lost his job and was taken to court. Thankfully the judge said it should never have come to court as there was no proof whatsoever and he was a man of good character etc etc. But now he finds it hard to get jobs - people all know about the allegation. Kids can say what they like and ruin a teacher's life, and they don't give a damn.

CaptainUnderpants - it is really hard to make that stand when there is no one more senior there backing you and encouraging you to do so, closing rank, keeping it all in house. Sometimes the easiest option is just taken.

So when the senior mangemnet is not going to back you up - what are your unions doing to help you ? Did you speak with your union Hula ?

I understand about taking the easier option but if the majority of teachers do this then taechers have to take some responsibilty for the situation that assaukts are getting out of hand .

No I admit I didn't. If I hadn't been heavily pregnant and due to go on mat leave maybe I would have. But have to say that my assault was not that unusual at the school - other teachers had been pushed about, and verbal assaults were a very regular occurence. And it all went unsupported and I guess unpunished (well real punishment anyway).

Schools are just very strange places when it comes to this type of thing.

I have friends who are teachers and say their union would never support them in situations like this.

How the hell did this come to pass? That a union could condone teachers being abused in the work place?

Well exactly Upwind ! Teachers should stop paying their subs then the Unions may take a little bit more notice .

That is appalling, Hula.

Can't do that. Need them when allegations are made against you rather than the other way round...

Was about to post same as TellUsMater. Can't risk not paying the union - you need them should a pupil accuse you of assault!

Sadly all too common. At the first school my then rather idealistic Dh ever taught at in Croydon, it was always down to your classroom management techniques if a child got out of control and assaulted a member of staff.

A boy high on drugs tried to attack dh, threw chairs and put his head through a glass panel in the door to get to him - the response? You shouldn't have spoken to him whilst he was coming down off his 'high'. Also in the 18m dh worked there he was shoved, threatened, had car vandalised... It just wasn't 'done' to report it since you'd lose your 'relationship' with the pupils if you involved the police. In fact I don't know a single teacher who has ever reported violence to the police, except a vicious assault by a parent. It's always been dealt with in house.

God Hula, no wonder you got out of teaching in schools I'm not a teacher but have worked as a social worker and what you said really rang true for me "verbal assaults a regular occurrence...all went unsupported and unpunished"... as a SW it's almost expected that you will take abuse pretty much daily, and accept being frightened for your own safety...my ex boss did support me to fill in 'violence at work forms' but no action of any sort, ever resulted! I expect the forms went into beauracracy-land and never saw the light of day again. Pointless.

It's so depressing that teachers, who are there to give kids the best education they can, are expected to put up with this behaviour.

I did another 2-3 years after that at the same school. No more physically assaults but the verbal stuff that was deemed normal, and the constant need for classroom management, rather than teaching, got me down. I just needed to get out. Working in the prison is so much more pleasant!

now doesn't that tell you something about the behaviour of children in this country, that working in a prison is more pleasant!!!!

So what is the concensus about what teachers are to do with the unions then to get them to back you up on assault complaints that you would make ?

It only needs a few teachers to make a stand to start getting the message across.

If your local reps aren't backing you then vote them out and get people in that will help to back you and take it up to the top of the union . The whole thing is bizarre.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that you are underestimating the culture in some schools.

Number one priority in many secondary schools is classroom management. If there is even a sniff of a suggestion that you may be weak in that area you are in a whole heap of trouble. Absolutely the worst thing you can say about someone is that they can't control a class. I have been in a school where one (senior) teacher had an embarassingly weak grasp of his subject, but his classes were orderly. They may have learned some pretty ropey science, but they didn't cause any problems behaviour-wise. So he was seen as a 'good' teacher .

So incidents of aggression are swept under the carpet.

Is it wrong? Of course.

And sadly most teachers have very little to do with the unions. They pay their subs and that's about it.

It is very hard to be a whistle blower. The SMT of a school can help to make a teacher's working life even more of a living hell if they make waves.

It shouldn't be like this, but it is.

And the real root of the problem is the inability that schools have in dealing with dangerously disruptive students. Head teachers need to keep permanent excusions dowm or the school does 'badly' in the league tables. And if the school does badly then the numbers of disruptive children that you will get coming to the schools will rise. and then you get on a downward spiral.

Schools also get extra money for taking students who have been permanently excluded from other schools within the lea. Since schools are already hard up for cash, they take the kid. the last one we got like this was a real charmer. Setting of the fire alarms of a regular basis was one of his faves. He also liked breaking into teachers car.

In the end we shouldn't have to try to deal with children who are this disruptive. And neither should the other children in the school. telling us that we should 'speak out about it' is fine, but at root this shouldn't be happeneing. Because a violent child should be excluded and sent to EBD schools where the teachers are properly trained, and the staff student ratios allow the child's behaviour to be managed, where they might just get an education!

Oh, but I forgot, they are closing all the EBD schools to save money.