JW mother refuses blood transfusion and dies leaving newborn twins

[WendyWeber]

report

"We can't believe she died after childbirth in this day and age, with all the technology there is."

They all share the responsibility for her death - her family, his family, the church, all of them. Can they really believe they all did the right thing?

so why do jw's go door knocking if only 144000 of them are going to heaven? Surely it would be better not to recruit so as to increase one's chances of being one of them?

As far as I am aware JW "rulings" as people keep saying don't exist - there are teachings, and it is down to the individual how strictly they adhere to them. In the same way Catholics have vastly different devoutness.

The homeopathic woman with her "useless" herbs mentioned earlier - many people reject modern medication with various chemicals. You have no idea what she was treating with or anything else. It was not child abuse of any sort, it was following her beliefs and what she felt was best for her child's body. She would probably be equally as disgusted at the idea of poisoning a child with chemotherapy.

"100. You can never question what is printed in Watchtower literature"

Where the hell did you get that list from?

It is on a par with lists about pagans which say we all slaughter goats and worship the devil

"If the woman in question here had had an illness and had refused a blood transfusion and that had resulted in her death that is one thing. But the consequences of her decision to refuse a blood transfusion are that two innocent children have been born into this world without a mother."

But surely (assuming the woman in question had an illness after her children were born) that would still lead to the same outcome??

interesting though that mad4mybaby has only discredited the bit about the windows, having said that no-one knows what they're talking about she's now disappeared since mmj pasted that list?

I dearly hope that one good thing comes out of this tragedy and that it opens people's eyes to what religion can do to people and that it isn't just harmless and benign fun.

wannabe, im not just discrediting that... most of it is untrue. And if you must know i have been with my son, something which obviously take priority...

that list is so untrue its laughable

"you are forbidden to go to the funeral of an ex jw"

erm ok i went to one last year where the elders from the KH did the funeral talk.

"you cannot have friends who are not JW"

my best friend is not a JW

"you cannot play chess"

DS plays chess often as do i

"JW are discouraged from consulting professionals in times of crisis, including mental health profesionals"

all of the elders in my KH know and support me seeing a mental health professional counsellor-in fact it was them who mentioned it to me in the first place.

i thought this thread was started about a woman who lost her life tragically, it seems to have turned into a witchhunt against all JW,s.

ermm who said that religion was "harmless and benign fun"? I'm sure all the Christians, Pagans, Muslims, JW's on here - and any of those that follow other ones (they're the ones I know for sure) don't see their relgion as "fun"????

ive only just come back to this thread so can i remind people that Emmas family DID over-rule her wishes, but she had lost too much blood.
she was NOT a selfish cow.
she made the decision to tick that box because that is what she believed.
how many people here expected their first pregnancy to be easy? their first labour to go to plan?
what did YOU write on your birth plan, fully expecting labour to be the natural beautiful thing that is portrayed?

life doesnt work out like that and as a result there is a 23yo who will be raising twins alone

jenk1, would like to get in contact with you..

how can we just shrug our shoulders and say it's her free will when it wasn't the free will of the babies involved?

abortion isn't legal during labour, and any doctor who refused her a transfusion to save her babies would have been prosecuted, so how can it be legal for her to refuse life saving treatment which would have prevented them from dying?

I am sure that religious folk would not see it as just a bit of fun QOQ.

I was referring to people who are not religious but turn a blind eye to religion being touted in places like schools, nurseries, toddler groups etc becaue they don't see it as anything harmful.

"51. You are discouraged from buying a two door car-A "Theocratic" or "spiritually strong" Jehovah's Witness will have a full size car for the door to door work"

87. If you have a non-Witness spouse your first loyalty is to the elders over your spouse

88. You cannot marry a non-Jehovah's Witness"

You cannot seriously believe that they think the first one, and the second 2 clash!

The list is pure crap.

in 99.99% of cases it ISN'T harmful, the only "newsworthy" things about religion that make the papers are the bad bits - that's like 0.01% of "bad" things which happen as a direct result of someone's beliefs.... For the other 99.99% of people that are "religious" they would never make the papers as nothing "controversial" or "newsworthy" happens to them because of what they believe.

lissietothosefireworks - she was selfish. Absolutely selfish.

RichardDawkins - have you read the thread? And do you know lissie's connection to the woman who died??? If not I suggest you DO read the thread.....

exactly. the newspapers have printed the bare bones of the story for the purposes of sensationalisation.

Um, no the second two don't clash. You can be married to a Non-witness when you become one, and stay married to them. It's just if you're a single Witness, you can't marry a non-Witness.

The list is about 50/50, and most of what it does get right is theology teaching, which is rather irrelevant to most people here.

I mean, really, do any of you non-Witnesses car that Witnesses don't believe in the Trinity?

The 99.99% figure is your opinion QOQ. It is not a fact. 'Harmful' does not just mean inciting suicide bombings, or leaving children motherless.

List of beliefs from JW's official website:

Bible is God's Word and is truth
Bible is more reliable than tradition
God's name is Jehovah
Christ is God's Son and is inferior to Him
Christ was first of God's creations
Christ died on a stake, not a cross
Christ's human life was paid as a ransom for obedient humans
Christ's one sacrifice was sufficient
Christ was raised from the dead as an immortal spirit person
Christ's presence is in spirit
We are now in the 'time of the end'
Kingdom under Christ will rule earth in righteousness and peace
Kingdom will bring ideal living conditions to earth
Earth will never be destroyed or depopulated
God will eliminate present system of things in the battle at Har-Magedon
Wicked will be eternally destroyed
People God approves will receive everlasting life
There is only one road to life
Human death is due to Adam's sin
The human soul ceases to exist at death
Hell is mankind's common grave
Hope for dead is resurrection
Adamic death will cease
Only a little flock of 144,000 go to heaven and rule with Christ
The 144,000 are born again as spiritual sons of God
New covenant is made with spiritual Israel
Christ's congregation is built upon himself
Prayers are to be directed only to Jehovah through Christ
Images should not be used in worship
Spiritism must be shunned
Satan is invisible ruler of world
A Christian ought to have no part in interfaith movements
A Christian should keep separate from world
Obey human laws that do not conflict with God's laws
Taking blood into body through mouth or veins violates God's laws
Bible's laws on morals must be obeyed
Sabbath observance was given only to Israel and ended with Mosaic Law
A clergy class and special titles are improper
Man did not evolve but was created
Christ set example that must be followed in serving God
Baptism by complete immersion symbolizes dedication
Christians gladly give public testimony to Scriptural truth

And I doubt he'll be raising them alone - Witnesses have a fantastic support network.

I disagree with the blood teaching - I think it's misguided and in error. However this young woman was trying to make the best choices with the information she had and the beliefs she held. It ended tragically, but I think a charge of 'selfish cow' against a dead woman is grossly insensitive.

oops i got the complete wrong end of the stick, didn't i? oh well glad no-one noticed

richarddawkins, how dare you? you didnt know her, and you dont know the whole story. she was a lovely woman, she was kind, warm and funny. she couldnt wait to be a mother and had faith (as we all do) that everything would be ok, because women dont die through childbirth any more do they? except they do. and she has. and those babies are left motherless because of it.
she wasnt selfish, she was just naive