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JW mother refuses blood transfusion and dies leaving newborn twins

432 replies

WendyWeber · 05/11/2007 08:59

report

"We can't believe she died after childbirth in this day and age, with all the technology there is."

They all share the responsibility for her death - her family, his family, the church, all of them. Can they really believe they all did the right thing?

OP posts:
madamez · 05/11/2007 23:04

I'm deeply not happy with people dying needlessly because of superstitous scruples, but I'm a bit uncomfortable with the sort of JW-bashing this kind of news story generates. FWIW this particular incident could, by the sound of it and going by the rather limited information in the Sun (oooh what a surprise), have just as easily been: young mother dies due to medical error and sloppy procedures. Which does still happen. There's so far been no objective information as to whether a transfusion would have saved the poor girl, it might not have done - and there have been other stories over the last few years of women dying from post-partum haemorrhage with very similar quotes from the families - how could she have died like this when we live in a modern world full of advanced technology?
There are also examples of women dying because of other people's religious scruples that are not to do with JW (someone want to google Angela Carder, one of the most horrific stories I'vve ever heard). And I do vaguely recall, and it's only vaguely and I am not meaning any offence, that a contributing factor in Bob Marley's death was that one of the treatments offered necessitated shaving his head, contrary to his Rastafarian beliefs, and he delayed having the treatment until it was too late...
Cases like the one being discussed at present are dreadfully sad but also pretty rare, and the trouble with thinking that SOmething Must Be Done is that you end up doing more harm than good, and a percentage of women will die in childbirth no matter what laws are put in place.

LittleBella · 05/11/2007 23:04

I think a lot of the outrage comes from not understanding that for people who have faith, what happens in the afterlife is much, much more important than anything that happens on earth.

as soon as you understadn that, all the mad decisions you hear about become comprehensible.

Desiderata · 05/11/2007 23:06

Really?

haychee · 05/11/2007 23:06

I understand that. I understand the need for comfort, i need comfort too. But i cant find any in religion, because of exactly this type of thing. I struggle with the concept of suffering and even premature unexpected death whilst following strict reigious values.

My comfort comes from within me. It comes from doing the right thing, by being supportive to those that need support, by being neighbourly, by doing good things for people. I take great comfort from that and self satisfy my desire to feel whole and complete.

madamez · 05/11/2007 23:07

Haychee: totally agree with you about the nonsense of religion but people do and should have the right to make their own choices about their own lives and bodies, as long as those choices are not to do active harm to other people's lives (and choosing to die is not doing active, malicious harm to other people unless you;re a suicide bomber).

Greensleeves · 05/11/2007 23:07

Sorry haychee, no offence meant, but your last post makes you sound like a bit of a smug twat

LittleBella · 05/11/2007 23:08

LOL haychee that's fine.

Next sunday an enthusiastic JW will knock on your door and try to convince you that you are wrong. They will simply not understand why you can't see it.

LadyVictoriaOfCake · 05/11/2007 23:08

i do as well haychee. i think most people do as well.

haychee · 05/11/2007 23:11

But how can they know 100% that there is an afterlife? That is another thing that i struggle to comprehend.
Im a worrier me, i will work out every possible outcome for any given scenario before im happy to comit to something. I like to know what will happen and i like to know for certain, until i know 100% that there is infact solid proof of an afterlife i would not be able to believe it.

LadyVictoriaOfCake · 05/11/2007 23:13

but you wont have proof untill you die haychee.

haychee · 05/11/2007 23:13

Oh i hate them knocking on my door.

I dont go around telling them they are wrong, i certainly dont disturb their sunday afternoon and produce a handout on the matter either.

haychee · 05/11/2007 23:13

Until then (my death) i cant believe it.

TheQueenOfQuotes · 05/11/2007 23:14

"i will work out every possible outcome for any given scenario before im happy to comit to something. "

don't you find that rather restricting in your "normal" life? I mean - jobs, children, moving house, getting married,etc etc etc - they're all really pretty much "unknowns" until you actually do them.......

VeniVidiVickiQV · 05/11/2007 23:14

How do you know 100% that there isnt one haychee? You wont know until the very end.

It doesnt make sense to you, but you need to learn to accept that it doesnt have to.

LadyVictoriaOfCake · 05/11/2007 23:15

you cant disturb their sunday afternoon haychee, they are already out doorknocking

why dont you ask them on sunday all this stuff?

my own brain is rusty as its been 10years since i was last a JW.

LittleBella · 05/11/2007 23:18

LOL, Haychee I urge you to find out the address of the nearest JW and go around there on Sunday to demand they give up their nonsensical ideas. Produce a handout to support your case by all means.

haychee · 05/11/2007 23:19

Queenofquotes

But none of these things are entirely unknown.
Jobs can be researched, trial days, talking to others etc.
A house move is usually well researched too, area, the house itself, the neighbours etc.

Getting married, for me, well im not married and have been living as good as with dp for the last 9years. We are totally committed to eachother and our dc and dont see the need to spend an absurd amount of money on a piece of paper.

So you see, i never jump in with both feet in any major life choices, they are always well thought out to the finest detail.

haychee · 05/11/2007 23:21

Have to say though, children was a bit of a shock!
They wernt as i expected or had planned at all!

TheQueenOfQuotes · 05/11/2007 23:22

and children? Did you think that out to the finest detail too??

oooo I've just had a thought - you're not that couple from "Grand Designs" are you - they had their whole LIFE planned out to the tiniest detail........it all went ar*e over tit of course once they started building their own home

VeniVidiVickiQV · 05/11/2007 23:27

Haychee - if that were the case, surely you'd know that it makes financial sense to get married - albeit a quick registry office thing to legalise it?

For the sake of your children and your partner who would be left to bring them up, should something happen to you.

haychee · 05/11/2007 23:27

No children entirley out of my control i have to say! I was not at all prepared for that.

And im certainly not the couple of grand designs, am far from it. Despite my wonderful worrying and thinking out consequences continuously, i have had pretty unfortunate time of life really.

My dp has been bankrupt recently and we have lost mostly everything we had. So im not saying my way is the right way but i do still struggle with religion especially when there is unecessary suffering and or premature unexpected death.

Cocobear · 05/11/2007 23:30

It's a shame the story has been so misreported, as the real story is so compelling: young mother makes naive choice to refuse transfusion on grounds of religion when no real danger is present, then has to pay the ultimate price when childbirth goes wrong.

The point of the Sun's skewed story is to shock and outrage "ordinary people": mother commits suicide-by-religion. But hopefully one lesson of the real story is that other JW mums and dads will take the risks of childbirth to heart, and perhaps make a different decision, or have different contigency plans in place.

No one should have medical procedures forced upon them. But it sounds as if this poor woman and her husband did not fully appreciate the consequences of ticking that box. One of the horribly sad things about this is that, when it came down to it, her DH and parents didn't really believe a transfusion was out of the question. They just hadn't questioned their beliefs closely enough until it was too late.

haychee · 05/11/2007 23:30

A quick registry office affair still costs, and at the moment a cost that we cant cover.

Life insurance is there to protect our dc, should anything happen to either of us, marraige isnt the answer to everything for me. Im happy with what ive got, very happy. Im content even though we are poor, we have eachother thats enough for me.

wrinklytum · 05/11/2007 23:31

VVV that is a very good point,though I am somewhat rambling off the subject.I have been with dp 12 years and he has been hospitalised for nearly 10 weeks.When he was very poorly in fact I was told he had metastaticcancer (it wasn't) I reaalised how prcarious my position would be being left with 2 small dcs.He also had no will.As soon as he is home and well enough I am dragging him to a registry offfice and solicitors.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 05/11/2007 23:34

Look for a thread started by Yorkiegirl. She started it after her husband died suddenly at a relatively young age.

There are so many benefits and entitlements and help that you get if you are married, that you wouldnt if you werent.

For the sake of a one off payment of approx £350 it is completely worth it. Which is why I am doing it, and why quite a few other MNers have decided to too.

Go look it up

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