Smacking still legal

[LittleSarah]

Well

Smacking is still legal in the UK... why is it so when I know so many are against it? On mumsnet anyway? Is it such a terrible thing, or just an unfortunate disciplinary tool?

remember mumsnet is not rl

I wouldn't hit an adult if they pissed me off/didn't obey/gave me cheek etc etc, so why should I do it to a child? There are better ways to discipline a child.

At the end of the day many humans forget they are the ancestors of animals. Before verbal communication was established it would have been natural for the parents to cuff the youngsters. They had to learn lessons quickly for their survival. Although we have a wider range of tools, I would say that for many parents the primal instict can be difficult to ignore, especially in dangerous situations for the child. If you look at most mammals, their discipline involves nipping and scruffing the young.

On the news there were lots of parents that didn't want smacking to become ilegal.I don't think making smacking ilegal is going to stop people abusing their children really. These people wouldn't care.

Sorry had a bottle of wine. I might not make sense

I'm not sure. I've never smacked my DD. I hope and believe I never shall. But I do know the feeling of wanting to...

It may be that a proportion of people 'supporting' smacking don't actually want to do it, but don't want it criminalized just in case they have a momentary lapse?

I'm not defending that position, merely suggesting it might figure in peoples thinking?

I'd rather take the chance and risk the penalty for smacking if I did have that momentary lapse, so that the 'smackers' out there might think twice before giving that whack.

I think there are different levels of smacking.
There is a huge difference between wacking a child so hard it leaves marks and ends in injury, through pure anger, than giving a controlled tap once you have given several warnings that it will happen if they continue to misbehave.

IMO there appears to be more out of control teenagers than ever before. I think this is due to lack of parental discipline and a lack of powers for schools to discipline. I was occasionally smacked but I would never have dared to cause the police to call because I knew I would be severely punished. Most parents did similar and very few of my year at school got into serious trouble.

well said tori

Thanks Roy

I agree with you tori32 re "levels" of smac king - and have made the same point as you before on Mumsnet re animals "cuffing" thier young.

But I don't really have the energy to go into this again - this view is a very much a minority amongst Mumsnetters.

My late aunt was a dinner lady at my old primary school for 30yrs. She told me before she passed away that the behaviour of the children had got worse over the years since I went there. It is strange that this has occurred since smacking has become more and more frowned upon.NOT!

I also agree that banning is not actually going to stop the parents who physically abuse their children in a serious and continual basis. The law is sufficient to deal with those people already and it doesn't act as a deterrent to them.

At the same time you would be criminalising all those good and caring parents, myself included, who have a momentary lapse when they feel that nothing else is getting through to the child.

Agree also that sometimes it is a primal instinct when language just won't do. The first time I smacked DS1 who was just 3 it was pure instinct and fear. I was 8 months pregnant and not quick on my feet and he ran off when I let him out of the car in a car park. Somehow I managed to get the open door between me and him and I just couldn't reach him in time. He frightened the life out of me and I tapped his legs. He was shocked (so was I as I never ever intended to smack my children) but he instantly realised that he had done something that was dangerous.

I think realistically a smacking ban would be very very difficult to enforce and is also open to manipulation by children. There would be cases of children who use it as a tool against their parents i.e. 'you can't do anything to me, I'll call the police'.

Agree with tori - although we very rarely smack - i got a smack when i was younger and...wait for it I am going to use that phrase 'it never did me any harm' I have the upmost respect for both my parent - I am embarrassed about how their grandchildren speak and behave around them - my kids included - I think now adays kids are spoilt parents feel guilty for working so much cause live is so much about material things now - whereas my Mothers attitude is if you don't have to save for it, it is not work having - she is a OAP now and has never been in debt (apart from her 9K mortage) that she worried about every month. I would be very happy if my kids turned out to respect their elders the way I do but sorry to day don't think they will - modern life is truely rubbish- and I am to fault

BTW = parents who abuse their kids seem to do it in such a way that they are never caught - when you read the stories in the papers you always wonder how did they get was with it probably cause all their neighbours/fiends/family were so wrapped up in their own lives - people don't have time to look out for other people now adays - sorry rant over but I wish I lived in the good old times - when children were seen but not hear - I was brought up like that and had a great life always appreciated what I got and knew family life and family time was more important than the newest toy.

opps - how did they get away with it!!

Mind you - I don't think I have seen any decrease in parents smacking their children in the street since the "ban". Including yesterday ky friend smacking her 11 year old ! So I'm sure it goes on in privare as much as ever.

About the animal 'cuffing" their young thing. There are lots of things animals do that I don't want to emulate - the difference between us and other animals is that we don't act on pure instinct - we use our brains as well as our feelings.

And don't even start me on the "controlled tap" If a child hit a parent, a younger sibling, a teacher - anyone - and then said "But it wasn't a hit, it was a "controlled tap" I can't see the parent saying "Oh, that's all right then!"

I disagree with banning smacking. If children aren't adequately protected by the existing laws covering assault, then those laws need modifying. But to make smacking - specifically in the form of parental discipline - would be an invasion into family life by the nanny-state. Besides, I don't believe that passing a law would change the habits of those who smack 'abusively'.

Personally I'm neutral on smacking. I was smacked, myself, and made no particular decision on whether or not I would smack my children. I didn't exclude it, but never wanted it to be the first resort. Over the years (7 years, 3 children) I never have smacked - though I've come close to it! - and now never want to do so. But that is my choice, and it's not up to the government to make that choice for me, any more than it's up to them to decree how I feed my children, or how many hours TV I let them watch.

Interesting. I think my view is that there are some areas that I think the Government has a responsibility to make laws about. And while I don't think it would be practical to make laws about what people feed their children, I do think, for example, that it could and should be possible to make laws about the food that is sold for children. And I do think that there should be specific laws to protect vulnerable people, so yes, I am with the smacking should be banned camp. I'm not sure it would actually prevent children being smacked, but it would say something about how we as a society think children should be treated.

I think you'll find we are animals and the descendents of animals. Unless you know something about the future of our species...

Yes and animals sometimes kill and eat their young too. not exactly a reason for us to the same.

Cannot anyone who smacks their child see that all it does is breed resentment? Why make your child do something out of fear of being hurt by the one that they love? Twisted.

I DID say "the difference between us and other animals".........

not directed at you seeker, tori.

Absolutely agree with ruty and macwoozy. If my children misbehave smacking is not the answer imo. I'm disappointed that the government took this line in the end, for the sake of all the children still being walloped out there.
I think sometimes those of us who are responsible, loving, conscientious parents just have to accept what we perceive as "nanny state" annoyances/intrusions, because it is so obvious that many children are not being well parented in society at large.
And I don't think it is as simple as whether or not they are being smacked Tori, tbh. I think it is much more about being present and consistent in a child's life, having clear rules and sticking to them.
I was smacked a few times as a child and I remember every incident. It didn't make me better behaved, it made me wary around my own mother - whom I love very much just the same. But she frightened me when she smacked me.

If I understand it correctly, I think part of the argument for changing the law is that there is no clear legal distincion between 'reasonable smacking' and abuse. this is not an issue, thankfully for most people ut if you are in court and tryig to prove physical abuse of a child, the parent could argue that what they did was just reaonable smaking and not abuse so it becomes very diffuclt to make a prosecution stick. The change would not therefore have been about villifying parents or taking away their 'choices' bt about making it less easy for abusers to wriggle out under a technicality.

Sorry about the typos by the way , supposed to be doing something else...