Smacking still legal

[LittleSarah]

Well

Smacking is still legal in the UK... why is it so when I know so many are against it? On mumsnet anyway? Is it such a terrible thing, or just an unfortunate disciplinary tool?

Making smacking illegal is not going to stop people abusing their children. I don't believe that smacking is an effective disciplinary tool, but it is not abuse. Abuse is when you deliberately set out to hurt a child, giving a young child a tap on the bottom or the hand does not hurt. I'm not advocating smacking btw as I said imo it is completely ineffective.

I believe there are all ready too many rules and regualations when it comes to parenting. Before we know we will all be completing Ofsted style reports and having to write up a daily diary of what we do with our little ones. By all means have a 'campaign' for want of a better word and educate parents that smacking is not the advised disciplinary tool but you can't make it illegal just like you can't make breastfeeding or cooking meals from scratch compulsory. IMO the government are barking up the wrong tree. There are terrible abusive parents out there and they couldn't care less whether smacking is illegal or not.

I don't disagree with that but, as I said, I think the issue is not that it would stop abusers, just make it less easy for them to come up with a spurious defence in court.

When I have read extracts from child abuse cases the injuries inflicted are often so severe that it is obvious that the child has been subjected to more than a little smack or the parents enforce their right to silence .

I think that perhaps in less serious cases where child abuse is suspected and the parents claim that they have only lightly smacked the child that they should be subject to an order where they are banned from smacking similar to an ASBO.

I noticed this yesterday and wondered why there wasn't a great steaming thread about it.

And here it is...

I'll probably get slated for this but I don't care. I think that there is a direct link between declines in public behaviour and the end of corporal punishment in schools. I got the ruler across the palm of my hand as a child at school and it certainly made me think twice before giving lip and disrespect to my teachers.
My Mother smacked me on a couple of occasions when I was totally out of order. On the bottom, with her bare hand, once or twice. I wasn't that sore, but the fact that she had breached that line that made me realise that i had really overstepped the mark. I love my mother dearly, and i think she brough me up to be a polite, respectful person who has respect for authority.
I have smacked my eldest son twice in his life - he's five. Again, on the bottom and when he had had repeated warnings and time outs. Believe it or not ...he learned something...that there is apoint beyond which NOT to go. I don't intend having to do it ever again.
I'm old fashioned and I don't live in loony left UK anymore. In Europe people are far better adjusted - they have a sense of proportion and perspective. A smack IS somethimes in order as a last resort. French parents would give their children a smack if they are out of order and you know what? - their children are so much better behaved and more polite than some of the british children I've seen.
Banning a parent from disciplining their child in this way is not going to stop someone who is a determined child abuser.

it's time the state stopped interfering in peoples lives....the whole thing has gone too far.

The problem with allowing corporal punishment in schools is that the children who have behavioural problems because they have certain conditions (ADHD, ASD etc), or those who act up because they have learning difficulties and do not have an adequate amount of support in class, or those who have emotional problems because of things going on at home, etc, etc, etc - are simply smacked into submission.

And no-one deals with the root causes.

Bringing back corporal punishment would be a retrograde step.

And allow the government to continue to ignore the real problems.

But if all you want is a class full of drones who are scared of the adults who are in charge of them for 6 hours a day, I suppose it would be an effective tool.

Have changed out of my Halloween name, as it was rather inappropriate for my last post.

ok, so our parents generation were all drones then obviously.....and my generation.

It must be a miracle that i managed to acheive anything with my life

I'm not actually making a case of bringing back corporal punishment in schools, but a spell of national service would be a step in the right direction for inisitlling a spot of discipline in society.

I agree with hoarsewhisperer.

There were certainly children in my class who misbehaved, who couldn't read and write, who found learning difficult, and who were regularly caned.

And after a few years they were more or less beaten into submission.

So I think they were pretty much drones for the majority of their school life.

They couldn't access the curriculum, so they just sat there and shut up.

Or played truant when they got older.

Can't see how National Service would add any value to the lives of the children I am referring to.

hoarsewhisperer, smacking is banned in Sweden
which is of course a lawless and violent society with a crime rate out of control
versus the US
where hitting children is still permitted (including in schools in many states)
where society is entirely peaceful and violent crime is almost unheard of.
see how well your argument stacks up

well I wish they'd send the bloody toerags who keep daubing our street with graffiti in - they're all over 18 and do bugger all except sell drugs and drink booze while skinning up on the neighbour's wall!

I don't think prison would help - am fairly anti that but Nat service might open their eyes to the opportunities that are there for them.

I would be in favour of smacking if it was two way.
so you can smack your child if s/he misbehaves.
and s/he can smack you if she doesn't think your parenting is up to much.
only a controlled tap, of course, for your own good, and never in anger,but in a loving way.

Lol Harpsy. Ds has given me the odd tap (and we don't smack!) on the hand and told me in a very condsending way that I am a naughty mummy. My crime, I told him to hurry up walking down the stairs which is very dangerous. I have always said to dh that ds would make the better parent

Harpsicord carrier - I think there is still compulsory National Service in Sweden......and in Switzerland

both very law ABIDING countries which I know well....

sorry - got your name wrong - halloween change?

I don't really understand the connection between smacking and national service tbh.
what does walloping children have to do with whether adults have compulsory experience of national service?
I don't get it
yes haloween change

itr's not really got anything to do with it - you're right - we've gone tangential. But the point I feel is that with the ability to discipline children at school gone (i'm NOT saying that's a bad thing) many end up with no respect for authority...something national service can give, later in life.

I just don't feel that there is anything wrong with smacking your child if you are an otherwise loving parent and it is done in the correct context. I think there are other social issues the government would be far better to spend its time on...such as what to do about the delinquents that wisteria mentioned

I agree with Tori and Prettycandles.

There is a huge difference between beating your child regularly and using smacking occasionally as a form of discipline.

There is a slight connection, albeit a very loose one in that they are both associated with the era of tough love to a degree.

I was oversmacked as a child and now it would be seen as child abuse, I have no doubt. My children were smacked very occasionally when it was either a question of safety and 'short sharp shock' or very occasionally because I was just all out of ideas and patience , not proud of that tbh.

Interestingly though neither of them can remember being smacked at all apart from the very last time and they were about 5 & 7, I was going through a very rough time and they were yelling and screaming at each other, they both had a wallop on the bum and were sent to their rooms to save my sanity - it was one of the very few occasions that I was out of order and that's why I think they remember it. They both do think it's really funny now though as we have talked it through.

I think that whatever your viewpoint on smacking, everyone must agree that respect in our community has diminished to a frightening degree and whether it's bringing back corporal punishment or national service or more discipline in some other way, something has to happen doesn't it?

I was soundly beaten and it did me lots and lots of harm. But I still don't think criminalizing parents in an unenforcable law will help children who are abused. I think it could well harm them further by making it even more difficult to ask for help if things get out of hand.

sorry to hear that soo0, no child deserves to be beaten....

#i don't have any particualr problem with national service. I think that instills self discipline.
I think the problem with the smacking debate is that often discipline is seen as synonymous with hitting/violence/corporal punishment. which I think is fundamentally wrong. the emphasis should be on instilling self discipline rather than instilling discipline through force or fear of force.
I just think that is more positive and long lasting and better for the individual and society

There is a world of difference between an occasional short-sharp-shock smack of chastisment and beating. I've smacked DSs occasionally in the past. Rarely, it has to be said. Anyway, it is no longer necessary as they understand consequences, reasoning and other forms of punishment.

I do not agree with corporal punishment in schools or from anyone but the parents.

Beating your child already is illegal. Making smacking illegal won't stop beatings.