Woman to have baby taken away at birth...

[SharpMolarBear]

because she is likely to suffer from Munschausen's syndrome by proxy

fran - i know you can't say much about the incident that caused ss to be involved but if they don't take molly away (which is obviously what we all want) would they have a problem with molly's dad having access? and was that incident what caused you to split up or were you already split up?

it's warwickshire you live now isn't it? i really hope they treat you better than northumberland!

Hi Nappyaddict,

To my mind there would be very grave concerns indeed about Molly's father having unsupervised access. I don't see documents pertaining to him any longer, nor him to I - but the last I did see suggested that social services felt the same.

Thanks,

Fran

please may i ask, have you tried official complaints policy.proceedure? have you contacted the regulatory body?

Hi Custardo,

Yes, I went through the appeals procedure which was an interesting experience. The two stages of the appeal conclude (in combination i.e. one stage contradicts the other and evidently both cannot be true) that at some point someone within social services was lying - but nothing happened about it. I am still waiting to be told how anything can happen about it. The independence of the appeal chair was also novel - seeing as they were also the chair of the fostering panel.

I am now attempting to register complaints with the council for further investigation - although even that seems to be more complicated, laborious and time consuming than one could ever imagine.

I believe that to contact the regulatory body I need to have exhausted all other options first - but I'm not sure.

Thanks,

Fran

why does the paediatrician think you have MSbP? Have you exhibited attention seeking behaviour before?

It's not possible to "have" MSbP - it's not a diagnosis in either the DSM-IV or the ICD-10. What is possibly (and undoubtedly does occur) is a horrific and potentially lethal form of abuse in which a caregiver fabricates/exaggerates/induces illness in someone in their care. Necessarily the person accused needs to be a caregiver, and there needs to be someone who has been harmed. Therefore, under any reasonable consideration is it impossible for me to "have" MSbP.

As for attention seeking behaviour - yes, I elicit attention from others all the time. I talk to them, smile at them, flirt with them from time to time (not so much now!). In the sense that I suspect is meant here - my self harm in my teens was quite possibly "attention seeking". I needed help with what had happened to me and didn't know how to ask for it. Self-harming was a way of asking for that help. However since having the help I have not self-harmed. That was 6 years ago.

Fran

hi fran i wondered whether you are allowed to employ the services of a professional advocate?
i wouldnt know how to do this - but wondered whether you have explored this

i also wonder whether if you contact the regulatory body telling them of you complaint and asking for their advice as no-onehad made it clear to you what stage of the process you are ip to and what your options are for further complaint.

i actually thought MSbP was a made up thing?

Hi nappyaddict,

I am not an expert on MSbP/FII by Proxy/PCF or whatever else it may or may not be called but...

To the best of my knowledge the concept of MSbP as a medical/disease entity is very hotly disputed. At the moment it definitively does not exist in that sense - this is ascertained by virtue of the fact that it is not in the DSM-IV or the ICD-10.

That said - the behaviours linked to MSbP i.e. the exaggerating/fabricating/inducing illness in someone in a person's care definitely do happen, and are (obviously) abuse. Whether or not there is any identifiable (psycho)pathology that is common to all perpetrators of this abuse is, as yet, unknown. I'm sure most of us would agree that anyone who perpetrates this kind of abuse has some aberration of their psychopathology - but we'd probably say the same about rapists or murderers. We don't however go on to say that the perpetrators of those offences suffer from "murderer syndrome" etc.

There is research (Adshead and Bass, Advances in Psychiatric Treatment, 2007, Vol 13) which discusses the psychopathology of this kind of abuse in far more detail and explains it all much better than I can.

Fran

Looking at all the stuff reported in the press, yes, I think SS have a right to be concerned about you. But, it seems taking the baby away seems a bit OTT when, as you suggest, you could be observed in a special unit. I think the personality disorder is a bit frightening. What's with the tracheotomy?

If you have read carefully Highlander you will see that Fran had the diagnosis of personality disorder withdrawn before she was even 18.

Also personality disorder covers a massive range - it is not just dangerous and severe personality disorder. The vast majority of people with personality disorder lead independent lives and are absolutely no danger to other people.

If you think Fran's case has been media hyped, you should spend some time researching personality disorder as that has had exactly the same thing happen.

I find it very hard to read what the plan is in your case Fran.

Whatever the concerns of SS it doesn't take away the fact that the whole system is massively underfunded. What I mean is that there should be readily available some place you can go and get the observation and chance you are asking for. I get the impression from what I've read that this is not available so the only other option is remove Molly - it seems harsh.

Have SS definitely decided that your baby will be adopted or will there be further hearings with Molly in foster care? If that's the case will you have contact with her on a regular basis?

Hi Highlander,

I've never questioned social services involvement, nor have I ever objected to it. I object however to their plan.

What is it that you find frightening about PD? I'm not having a go, I'm asking seriously. There is a lot of inaccurate information out there about PD, and it's led to some pretty appalling prejudices taking hold. Regardless though, as doricgirl said, I had the diagnosis removed before I was 18. It's not even supposed to be diagnosed before someone is 18 - let alone diagnosed, treated and removed; so it's somewhat dubious as to whether it ever really applied to me.

Thanks,

Fran

Hi SpikeandDru,

Social services haven't definitely decided to adopt Molly no. There is a whole process known as "care proceedings" that have to be completed through the family courts before that happens. Molly would be in foster care in the meantime, and I would have supervised contact. The regularity of which would be dependent upon social services.

I agree with you though - lack of resources should not be the determining factor in whether a mother and child are able to stay together.

Thanks,

Fran

Sorry Highlander, you also asked about the tracheostomy.

I have it because I have had episodes of acute laryngeal oedema where, despite many attempts, it has been impossible to intubate and so an emergency tracheostomy had to be performed. A permanent tracheostomy obviously removes the life-threatening element to such episodes, and removes any need for surgery.

Does that answer your query?

Thanks,

Fran

If Molly is put into care how long will SS take to decide if she will be adopted or not?

It varies considerably nappyaddict - but potentially up to two years I think.

Fran

What's the shortest amount of time it could be?

If you were separated can family not care for her rather than her going into foster care?

I'm afraid I don't know the answer to that nappyaddict. Someone else on here might though.

There isn't anyone in my family who could have Molly no. My Mum works full time and also cares for my grandfather who is increasingly dependent upon her due to his dementia.

Thanks

Fran

Would she be placed in a foster family near to you to make regular contact easier?

I so hope all these woulds/ifs stay that way and you never even have to consider this.

I think that's normal practice yes. There are also some areas which have "mother and baby" foster care placements I think though I suspect they are few and far between.

If she is removed I will be pushing with all my might for them to change their minds regarding breastfeeding as I believe that that is vital to Molly's welfare. It is Molly's human right to be breastfed unless there is a sensible (and evidenced) reason why not.

Thanks,

Fran

We have mother and baby foster care places in Birmingham... but they tend to be filled by teenagers I'm afraid.

Do you know why? Or if exceptions can be made? Or what levels of supervision can be offered?

Sorry - not meaning to bombard you with questions!

Fran

WHy? Because we have so many children who have children!

Do you have a SW now you have moved?
They should know about provision in your area/surrounding areas.
Is it correct yr in warks? Thats not far from here.... but in bham we have 2200 children in care. There is a severe overload on the fostering system