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Woman to have baby taken away at birth...

703 replies

SharpMolarBear · 18/10/2007 17:03

because she is likely to suffer from Munschausen's syndrome by proxy

OP posts:
edam · 04/11/2007 22:48

IIRC (and I'm a bit rusty on parliamentary processes these days) all business that isn't completed is lost at the end of the term. One tactics opponents of legislation used to use was to hold bills up until they ran out of time at the end of the session. I think there may have been changes in the last round of reforms but seems it still applies to EDMs (which are only ways of making a point, after all).

FranLyon · 04/11/2007 23:42

Our site is back up now at franlyon.righttoreply.info/Home.html

I will update it soon - I promise!

Thanks,

Fran & Molly

bossybritches · 05/11/2007 13:05

Bonfire bump!

johnhemming · 05/11/2007 15:11

Anything left at the end of a session when Parliament is Prorogued falls.

I need to print out the EDMs that I have previously sponsored and decide which to retable.

Beenleigh · 05/11/2007 21:11

The petition is up and running here but before we all get busy with emailing it to everyone and trying to get signatures on it, is everyone really sure that it says all the right things. I have to say that I find it wordy and emotive, and the mention of Fran Lyon, is too far down. Just though I'd mention it. It's nothing to do with me, and I am very happy to put my name to it but didn't want to until everyone was sure it's the right one.
Know that's going to make me unpopular. Sorry MrGokWan, you write beautifully, no offence.

bossybritches · 05/11/2007 22:07

Beenleigh it won't make you unpopular if that is what you believe.. you are entitled to an opinion, we can choose whether to ignore it or agree with it!!

I think Mr GW has got it about right. I think maybe the bit about the govt being abusive at the end might be seen to be a bit inflammatory(although totally reasonable INHO!!)

Personally although I am supporting this primarily for Fran, I think it has more impact if done for ALL families suffering at the hands of the "system"

Let's get it spread through our address books ladies & gents & see what dust we can stir up.

doricgirl · 05/11/2007 23:11

Hi there

I am friend of Fran's - please feel free to wait for Fran to confirm this - just to say I have linked this to Fran so hopefully she will see it soon.

There is also a facebook group if anyone is on facebook and I am trying to keep people as up to date as possible on there:

www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=4696703334

The debate and support that I've seen on here has been amazing - wouldn't like to meet you guys on a dark night to discuss this.

Hopefully between here and other forums we can get loads of people to know.

Also just wanted to say I don't have kids, so if anyone has a problem with me posting here please let me know - I'll understand completely.

edam · 05/11/2007 23:18

Doric, glad to see a (real life) friend of Fran's here! Don't worry about not having children, there are quite a few posters in that situation for various reasons.

Re. the dark night: MN isn't the most fluffy parenting website. People like a good argument (in the best, and worst, senses of the word - you will always find a new perspective here).

edam · 05/11/2007 23:20

Btw, we used to have a very lovely poster who had lost her children due to false accusations of MSbP (by Roy Meadows, the infamous paediatrician). So for some of us, failings in the child protection system have been a serious concern for some time.

doricgirl · 06/11/2007 00:03

Hi Edam

Thanks for the replies - definitely didn't mean the dark night in a bad way - I am all for direct action !!

I am actually posting to say that I have just been in touch with Fran and she has asked me to post as she is really knackered and has to be up really early - so I hope people don't mind that.

She wanted me to let people know she has looked at the petition and in her own words:

"I don't want to offend anyone but I think a lot of people won't sign it because it's too extreme. It's just not how I feel about things."

She's also worried it might backfire on her and her case.

I know she really really appreciates the time and effort that has gone into putting up the petition, but I am posting to ask if there is any way to edit it now it's up? Neither of us want to offend anyone in any way - but I'm sure you can understand that anything connected to this case could affect Fran in a HUGE way.

Thanks for reading

MrsGokWan · 06/11/2007 00:17

Mr GW here (apparently, I thought I had another name but there you go),

Folks were a little quick on the draw signing up and thus I couldn't edit a couple of typos I saw in it.

Yes it is wordy and I apologise for that but I wanted it to be set appart from the other similar petitions. It is primarily to support Fran but I'm afraid that would have just gathered a simple "we cannot comment on individual cases" type response.

I felt it was important to tie it into the Early Day Motion and to as many pieces of relevant information as possible. Each point raised in the petition has a chance of being addressed if we get sufficient signatures. The more points there to be answered, the more answers and the more ammunition the public, the press, the backbenchers and the opposition have to hit them with.

Most of all I felt it was important to raise the issues in an emotive way as one has to hope that somewhere in the Prime Minister's office there is a human being rather than just a politican (no offence meant John) who may read this and decide to look into it all a bit more.

I also felt it important to add balance. Please note that if you sign up you are agreeing that you recognise that circumstances do occur when children need to be removed from their parents. I felt it was important to recognise that. I balance that off with the assertion that sometimes support is a better issue and that adoption targets should be scrapped (surely fostering/family must be a first step to allow people to straighten out their lives, it can happen).

If you agree with the petition (even if you don't like how it is worded but agree with the points raised in it) please sign it and pass it on. Remember to click on the link in the email number 10 will send you otherwise you will not be added to it.

If you wish to post a similar petition to raise points you feel I may have missed or that you feel are more pertenant then please start one and I will happily sign and promote it too.

Please also ask your MP to sign it.

A point to note if you are starting a petition on there. Part of the reason for the dreadful wordiness of it is a weird limitation of the system. The petition itself has a seemingly unlimited character count but the details section (where one would be expected to be able to expound and back up your petition in greater detail) has a very limited character count.

Thank you all and, of course, good luck Fran our thoughts and prayers are with you.

Alan

doricgirl · 06/11/2007 00:23

Hi Alan

Thanks for responding so quickly - and so nicely - now I can sleep...

It's not a personal thing at all, just Fran obviously having to be very careful about what she's associated with - and I think all the points are really valid and important.

Thanks again - and if another petition does go up hopefully people will still sign it.

Thanks for the tips about the site as well.

TheMolesMother · 06/11/2007 09:05

Went to the site and signed the petition this morning. Awaiting an email confirmation that my name has been added.

Have also joined doricgirl's Facebook group.

Fran - if there is anything I can do please let me know. I'm in France so can't take to the streets on your behalf, I'm afraid but if I can help in any other way I'd be glad to.

MM

bossybritches · 06/11/2007 09:49

Doricgirl- I'm worried about signing the petition if it would upset the apple cart for Fran (although I do think Alan it's a very well-worded document)

The idea of a petition came from us all feeling frustrated at the continuing saga in the Family Courts in general but Frans case in particular. She has been so calmly vocal,open & honest in here I wouldn't want her to feel alienated by anything that was done with the best intentions. It's lovely that she fels she can come in here & get some support,but don't want to scare her off as I appreciate she is treading carefully with regard to her personal dilemma.

I'm so glad she has a good RL friend like you to help, at this point in her pregnancy she shouldn't have to be fighting/talking to Tom, Dick & Harry about so much personal stuff, but resting & looking forward to the happy event.

Sorry- don't get me started

Beenleigh · 06/11/2007 09:54

Right, well I think that's fairly conclusive. We need another petition and fast. Can we please try to get Fran or Dorics goahead before submitting it?? Doric, I would be more than happy to submit it in my name, but will not be able to write it myself as I simply do not have all the info. If you would like to help me put somethiong together then please could you give me an email address to contact you on. I anyone else has any ideas then please either take over, or give me a load of info/ideas.

Thanks
x

Alambil · 06/11/2007 19:58

Can we do a few petitions - 1 for Fran, 1 regarding family court secrecy/gagging post-hearing and 1 for adoption targets/issues?

I know it is a lot of work, but I don't think lumping the issues together is going to work; it will detract too much from Fran's case.

Doric, please pass on my ABSOLUTE heartfelt sympathies to Fran; I too have been raped and in domestic violence and can NOT imagine going through what she is - it is utterly unbelievable and horrific.

milliec · 07/11/2007 08:22

Message withdrawn

Beenleigh · 07/11/2007 09:57

Lewis, I agree. I'm kind of focused on the first one but need help, as I really don't have all the facts. Think would be a good idea to do three, but I have NO IDEA what to write.

We the undersigned believe that the Social Services' (?) decision to take Fran Lyons new born baby away from her is wrong and should not happen. The decision by Social Services is as a result of an assessment made by a paediatrician (who hasn't met her) that she may suffer, from munchausen by proxy.
should there be a paragraph about where the concern about FLs mental health issues stems from, e.g. FL suffered some mental trauma following * in year?
Fran Lyon should at the very least be allowed to stay in an assessment unit with her baby, Molly, pending a decision that she is capable of caring for her daughter independantly.

Any input would be VERY gratefully received!

milliec · 07/11/2007 11:50

Message withdrawn

Beenleigh · 07/11/2007 14:19

Milliec, that sounds like a great idea, but perhaps it is a seperate issue to the immediate case??
Please guys can we have some input on this petition? I really think we need to get moving asap. If I don;t hear anything tonight, then I shall go ahead and submit it to Dowming street, and if it is rejected, then I shall set up a web page.

Fran please please have a look at this, I've set up a hotmail account; [email protected] so you can contact me directly

We the undersigned believe that the Social Services' intention to take Fran Lyons new born baby away from her is wrong and should not happen. The decision by Social Services is as a result of an assessment made by a paediatrician (who hasn't met her) that she may suffer, from Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy.
Fran Lyon suffered from mental health issues when she was 16 years old, following a serious sexual assault, and received therapy for two years. She has not received or needed any mental health therapy since that time. Her treating psychiatrist has explicitly stated that she has no concerns whatsoever for Fran's mental health.
Fran Lyon should at the very least be allowed to stay in an assessment unit with her baby, Molly, pending an inevitable decision that she is capable of caring for her daughter independently.

Beenleigh · 07/11/2007 14:19

Milliec, that sounds like a great idea, but perhaps it is a seperate issue to the immediate case??
Please guys can we have some input on this petition? I really think we need to get moving asap. If I don;t hear anything tonight, then I shall go ahead and submit it to Dowming street, and if it is rejected, then I shall set up a web page.

Fran please please have a look at this, I've set up a hotmail account; [email protected] so you can contact me directly

We the undersigned believe that the Social Services' intention to take Fran Lyons new born baby away from her is wrong and should not happen. The decision by Social Services is as a result of an assessment made by a paediatrician (who hasn't met her) that she may suffer, from Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy.
Fran Lyon suffered from mental health issues when she was 16 years old, following a serious sexual assault, and received therapy for two years. She has not received or needed any mental health therapy since that time. Her treating psychiatrist has explicitly stated that she has no concerns whatsoever for Fran's mental health.
Fran Lyon should at the very least be allowed to stay in an assessment unit with her baby, Molly, pending an inevitable decision that she is capable of caring for her daughter independently.

Beenleigh · 07/11/2007 14:20

Milliec, that sounds like a great idea, but perhaps it is a seperate issue to the immediate case??
Please guys can we have some input on this petition? I really think we need to get moving asap. If I don;t hear anything tonight, then I shall go ahead and submit it to Dowming street, and if it is rejected, then I shall set up a web page.

Fran please please have a look at this, I've set up a hotmail account; [email protected] so you can contact me directly

We the undersigned believe that the Social Services' intention to take Fran Lyons new born baby away from her is wrong and should not happen. The decision by Social Services is as a result of an assessment made by a paediatrician (who hasn't met her) that she may suffer, from Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy.
Fran Lyon suffered from mental health issues when she was 16 years old, following a serious sexual assault, and received therapy for two years. She has not received or needed any mental health therapy since that time. Her treating psychiatrist has explicitly stated that she has no concerns whatsoever for Fran's mental health.
Fran Lyon should at the very least be allowed to stay in an assessment unit with her baby, Molly, pending an inevitable decision that she is capable of caring for her daughter independently.

bossybritches · 07/11/2007 14:32

Beenleigh I think maybe Fran is worried that if she is mentioned personally it will backfire against her & Molly -please don't post it until you are sure she is happy to be mentioned I'd sign it like a shot if she is!!

Beenleigh · 07/11/2007 14:43

Fine, agree. Will wait for go ahead.
No idea how I managed to post that 3 times!!

Elizabetth · 07/11/2007 14:51

I'd sign it too. I'd just be surprised if the Number 10 website would allow it because it names her personally, then again there are other petition sites it could be posted to.