Boris Johnson - disgusting or what?

[beansprout]

What an insulting idiot. Shame on him.

Also, do you think the official inquiry in Hillsborough was made up of people with 'a deluded point of view'? It was made quite clear after detailed investigation that the cause of the awful events and the death of 96 perfectly ordinary men, women and children, was NOTHING to do with drunken fans and everything to do with poor crowd control. That's a fact. The Sun newspaper filled its pages with disgusting lies about that event, and it seems those lies live on.

aloha - ignore it; nonsensical comment to my mind.

FWIW I agree that it's ridiculous to single out Liverpool.

And despite asking several times on this thread, no-one has yet been able to tell/explain/show me examples of "hysterical grief" in relation to Ken Bigley

Nasa-some peole feel that the books of condolence and silence count.

Personally i think Moomin's comments about the way the thing was played out on TV and thus more "real" are very true. Hence the need to respond.

BTW when the American hostages were killed their towns were covered in yellow ribbons and there were candlelit vigils. It seems that the need to respond wasn't limited to liverpudlians.

There has defo been no grief in a Daina stylee though.

I thinkt his thread is getting a bit tabloid

popsycal - sadly I knew this thread would end up descending into a bashing of Liverpool fans. I'm not going to go into a diatribe about all countries (and especially Italy) having problems with football fans but what I do clearly remember about Hillsborough was a BBC reporter going to Turin and asking Juventus fans about it and all expressing sympathy with Liverpool. And 'You'll never walk alone' being sung in the San Siro the following weekend (the 2 Milan teams ground). So if Juve fans are grown up enough to realise you don't write off a whole group of people because of one rogue element, I'm astonished that it still goes on here

fantasia - there was a question mark after my comment therefore implying that it was your view, NOT mine

Moomin- exactly. But you can't complain about it because you'll be judged to be wallowing in victimisation. Remember when blacks were told they had 'chips on their shoulders'?

Most of this thread has been intelligent debate but that comment has made me so angry

stereotypes, pre-judice and discrimination...seen it all on this thread.

i am not a religious person but everyone's life is worth something.

Football fans are REAL people, people's father's and sons, people's wive's and daughters. i am so dismayed at this thread totally and utterly. it has drove me mad. i cant even begin to explain myself as I would be here all day.

Show some repect people

Boris is a nerd and a snob

agree with fio2.

Blimey. I live in Liverpool and I didn't think there was an outpouring of hysterical grief or whatever the spectator article said (didn't read it). People just went to the Cathedral and said a few prayers. I myself felt really sad about Ken Bigley but I would have even if I came from anywhere, it was just a tragic and horrible way to die. As for all the kerfuffle (real word?) over Boris's visit, that seemed to me to have been brought about by the media. Everyone I know had their own thoughts about Boris - some good - some bad, but everyone thought he didn't need to come.

legle
the voice of reason

The reason Diana wasn't used as an exapmple was because far more people had heard of her and felt they had something in common with her and I suppose felt sorry for her not because the people who write for the spectator are snobs???

As for the liverpool thing - I don't agree with him using them as an exapmle but I do believe that people do go a bit over the top these days about things and to me I am sorry but I have never met the man, will never miss him and the only thing that touched me about the whole epiode was the barbaric way in which it was obvious he would be killed - and yes as nonsensical as it may be I don;t have as much sympathy for someone who choses to put themsleves in that position as someone who walks down the street and is randomly attacked or hit by a bus!!

As for the comment about football supporters = DP is every other week and was every week until the start of this season and the only places he ever felt dodgy going were Liverpool and Aston Villa!!

thinkt he fact Boris is wealthy is irrelevant

Ah Twinkie, I'm gutted your DH felt unsafe coming to Liverpool! It used to be quite rough but I've recently moved back and its changed quite a bit. Know what you mean about the Villa though (joke - just used to date someone who was a villa fan)

you miss the point twinkie. people do not 'choose' to put themselves in that position. Sometimes people cant find work and HAVE to do whatever they are given. I am unsure of what kind of job KB did, but my husband has worked in the middle east. Atm he is finding it very difficult to find work in this country, we are struggling for money. he is offered contracts on a weekly basis to work out in the middle east. Any normal person can see how much of a temptation that is. A choice between earning good money or having your house reposessed, which would you choose?

But somehow this is missing the point. i think it was hmb who said further down that rebuilding Iraq was a 'key' role and is important. It is!

i am not posting on here anymore because i am just so pissed off with it all.

Who chooses who has the more nobler life, hey?

Oh well that just says it all, i have alot of family in Liverpool and used to live down the road from the Villa

must be scum must be scum, just remind yourself that fio

Fio2, dh was spent time in the area, not there atm thank god. He summed it up well. he said, 'The poor guy was just unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time'.

In the end it would do us all good to remember that the people who did this are in the buisness of terrorising the West. They want to see the west destroyed, not just a withdrawal from Iraq. None of us can think that we are 'safe' from these people. There but for the grace of god etc

FGS - this is getting rideculous - yes I would rather my house repossed and be living in council accomodation than let DP go somewhere where it is so unsafe and it is clearly publicised that KB was building an American Airbase not rebuilding a school or hospital or something so noble - he also turned down security and was apparently rather blase about hs chances of being kidnapped!!

And he wasn't trying to save his house or keep his children out of the gutter he was getting a nest egg so he could reture to Thailand!!

As for Liverpool no one has said you are scum or your family are scum - DP just said that he felt unsafe with their supporters and in the ground.

I come from just round the corner to where Stephen Lawrence was killed not far from some pretty shitty places but I am not scum and if people say I come from an unsafe place or somewhere they feel unsafe I would say oh well I feel pretty ok round there not fly off on a oh well I must be scum rant!!

A few of you seem to be quite selective in what you pick out of my post. I said " there is an element of people, so called football supporters (Liverpool or anyone else) who leave their brains at home when they go to a match." For 'anyone else' read other club supporters.

I'll concede that there should have been a 'some Liverpool fans' in this sentence " but of course the Liverpool fans WERE to blame for 39 deaths on that occasion" but thats getting into semantics.

Fio2, are you suggesting there are NO football hooligans? If you concede that there are - then they have fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, sisters and brothers but they are still hooligans.

Tinker - where did I say that all people from Liverpool are Flawed? You're making it up as you go along!

I intend to leave it there. I agree that both Heysel and Hillsborough were tragic events and innocent people lost their lives because of a sequence of events that could have been avoided - on the one hand the behaviour of some the fans and at the other to some extent the fans but mainly to poor decisions made by the police. In both incidents I don't see that any of the protagonists intended any loss of life.

as i said before i cant be arsed with this thread and from now on I am going to keep my opinion to myself for he who shouts the loudest is obviously right

hmb, I know exactly what your dh means, our spouses obv work in the same industry

Dh is in the RAF, and served in both Gulf wars and Afghanistan. He missed Bosnia as he was 'lucky' enough to have had cancer and was grounded at the time. Funny old world.

Haven't read this whole thread and I know what he said was insensitive but free speech is just that.We do go silly at times as another poster has said and over sentimentalise some people and not others.Boris looks like a big giant toddler and is just a typical hooray henry.

fantasia - re your post at 1:28 referring to heysel and hillsborough:
"... a sequence of events that could have been avoided - on the one hand the behaviour of some the fans and at the other to some extent the fans but mainly to poor decisions made by the police. "

I presume the bit "...and at the other to some extent the fans but mainly to poor decisions made by the police" is your opinion on hillsborough. Could you point me in the direction of where yo get your information regarding the first clause in this sentence?

Waiting with baited breath

Legle, I agree with every word of your post. See, I knew I'd find something to agree with you about...

... but it's your turn to agree with me next!

you wouldn't believe this but I did a minor in contemporary feminist thought at university...but that was before my brain melted during childbirth