Boris Johnson - disgusting or what?

[beansprout]

What an insulting idiot. Shame on him.

I don't know anyone who was 'hysterical with grief' over Ken Bigley. Very shocked and horrified but hysterical?

wearing black armbands makes a "mockery of the people genuiely effected"?!! I'm gobsmacked - tell you want then, lets not bother with poppies shall we

aren't acts like that just about respect? wow and I thought I was cynical

TBH, the hysteria comment was mostly directed to the death of Diana. A close friend of mine wore black for a week. Sorry just mad.

Poopes are sold to raise monety for those who have been injured by war, quite a different thing. I was horrified at what happened to the poor bloke, but I don't grieve for him, I don't know him.

In the first 5 years of my marriage 5 of my dhs collegues were killed in training accidents . we mourned them because we knew them. I wouldn't expect people whi didn't know them to do the same. Regret their passing, yes, try to help the families left behind, yes if that is what people want, but books of mourning? Why? they didn't know them.

No, krocket - you've missed my entire point!!

People wear poppies because they genuinely want to remember those killed. I'm saying that I don't believe those footballers were grieving for KB - therefore it DOES make a mockery of what should be a genuine mark of respect!!

I also feel that this false outpouring of grief over that few people knew particularly nauseauting. It should be private, and if the media hadn't hyped it up. it wouldnb't have happened.

However, my Grandad died ten years ago, very suddenly, and I was mourning him, when I dorve past the Discovery Ship ( the ship that Scott sailed in to the South POle, which is now docked in Dundee, My Grandad worked on the ship for alot of years giving people tours).

Well, they had the ship's flag flying at half mast for him. I was in bits. There were people there that really loved my Grandad and they made this really lovely gesture, and the sight of that will touch me for the rest of my life.

BUT they knew him and they respected and loved him, If it had been the whole of Dundee, I would have felt that the real feeling would have been DILUTED in a sense of unworth grief.

hmb a friend of mine layed flowersa t b hma cthedral
she is sooooooo embarrased by it now so I remind her all t he time
I hoovered
I HATE the royal family.

his comments about hillsborough were unforgiveable
i have personal reasons for feeling this way, but nevertheless, unforgiveable

Fine, if he wanted to have a go at 'false outpourings of grief' he could have written the editorial about that in general. But he didn't. He directed the thrust of the article at Liverpool. Why? Re: books of condolences - not my bag but I think the long drawn out nature of this particular man's horrible murder played out for the media rather heightened this case. People want to show some respect to his family, who had to play out this gruesome episode in public. I don't think there's anything particularly nasty about some poeple feeling the need to do that.

Fully agree that his specific cooment about Liverpool was out of order. But the general
point about the 'dilution of grief' was spot on.

The Discovery story is a wonderful example of what is real and what is not imo.

When my father died there were about 500 people in the church, they couldn't all get into the crematorium. They also lined the streets. But these were people who knew the guy. If they had done the same in the next vally, not knowing him if would have been 'fake' and not touched me.

agree about diana - was ridiculous and a nonsense.
But who is to say that the people in liverpool showing 2 mins silence were not horrifed too (rather than 'grieving') and is that so wrong? - to show respect?
who was 'grieving'?

I think that a black arm band has tended to be a mark of someone in mourning. To wear it before you play a game of football is, I think, of dubeous taste at the best of times. If they were grieving they wouldn't be able to play.

and moomina maybe they weren't greiving but weren't they just showing respect?

why hmb? why is it dubious?

hmb - I agree with everything you say

Wearing black arm bands was done by memvers of a berieved family, or in victirian times the court to mark that they had lost someone. In the same way that jewish people sit shiva (sp no disrespect intended just can't spell). It has always been, fo most people a mark that they have lost someone that they love. To wear it before playing a football match smacks of people feeling that they should do it, tbh, that they would be acused of being unfeeling if they didn't. I also abhor people feeling that they should wear a poppy, even if they don't feel that it is important.

I abhor people who don't wear poppies .. I think it shows a lack of respect for generations of service people who have fought for our country

but I agree with everything else you say HMB entirely

fair point but how do you know that they feel they 'should' wear it - perhaps they want to wear it, who are we to judge them or anyone else who does this or similar?

Oh, I agree that people should want to, I just get the feeling that some poeple wear it because they feel that it 'looks wrong' if they don't, rather than wanting to wear it IYSWIM.

Also, I always buy a poppy. It is a form of rembrence to those people who gave up thier lives to keep us British

krocket - I don't know that they weren't all so affected/horrifed by KB's death that they didn't all, individually and collectively, decide to wear armbands. I'm just saying that it's highly unlikely! Therefore, IMO, if a gesture of respect is made without the genuine feeling or intent behind it to back it up then it is just that - a gesture, and a pretty empty one at that. And that is when I think it becomes actually a bit insulting to those who are genuinely affected.

I don't think that any sane peorson could know what happened to the man and not be sickened. It is beyond imagining to think how his family must feel. He didn't 'deserve' what happened to him. It was the act of sick twisted bastards. Given that dh has been in the same part of the world I have quite a good handle on how terriflying this prospect must be for all the families of the people out there at the moment.

But with the best will in the world if I grieve for someone I have never met it is, at best a hysterical over reaction and at worst wallowing in the emotion of the moment (shown at it's worst with the case of Diana).

Be angry, be annoyed , be deterimed that the people who did this will not 'win',do something for the poeple left behind, but don't hijack the feelings of others, it don't acchieve anything.