Madeleine McCann

[morningpaper]

Instead of starting lots of new posts about Madeleine, could I politely request that anyone who wants to post on the subject please post on this one thread? (N.B. Duplicate threads may be flamed hysterically.)

Please note that this thread is not to criticise Madeleine's parents or family, as this is not in the spirit of Mumsnet.

Please can I take the liberty to quote from this article:

"This is the real life of Kate and Gerry McCann, and it must now have become a place of agony beyond all understanding. Pity them, if you have any compassion at all, and demonstrate the minimum of grace: the ability to desist from judgment."

I am sure he cant, but thier might be loop holes in the law.

but if a priest knew and didn't say something, couldn't he be charged with perveting the course of justice or something?

Not sure, I dont think there is anything to tell anyway, the pries gave an interwiew the day before they left, after they were made suspects, and he spoke quite fondly of them.

thats what I was thinking HH. and what priest would stand by watching the parents take audience with the pope, knowing whatever he might know, if a confession had been made - that is of course.

cant see it myself.

i'm sure there's nothing to tell too, just thinking in general terms. there must be quite a lot of priests knowing about crimes if they are really not allowed to say anything regardless of the kind of crime

A priest cannot tell anyone of any confessions he has heard which is why when you go to confession in a confessional their is a screen between you and the priest. He doesn't have to forgive you though and obviuosly he can encourage you to go to the authorities.

i don't know much about the Catholic religion so apologies if this offends anyone but that is such a bizaare thought. if a serial killer goes to confession and confesses and says he has urges to continue, a priest can't do anything about it??

I think it's quite possible that no one will ever know exactly what happened.
And it is a salutary lesson that 'using' the media even with the best intentions can have unimaginable consequences. If they have been set up then it would be likely to be due to the extraordinary way they marshalled the world's media to help them. This may turn out to have been a terrible mistake in itself.
The Portuguese police have clearly felt humiliated by the rest of the world calling them idiots.
It's a disaster from beginning to end and I feel terrible for the couple. However I do also support due process of law. But in this case the whole evidence gathering seems to have been too late and too open to multiple interpretation to produce the kind of evidence necessary to convict anyone.
And within reason I think mumsnet should be an open forum for discussion about these events - it's all in the public domain and imo I'm happy for people to have opinions I disagree with.

Basically....yes.....but I wouldn't have thought there would be many serial killers going to confession but what do I know!!

No - there isn't a swimming pool . But, as I say, ds has alwys been a good sleepr (from 8 weeks! ) and has never got up in the middle of the night (barrying a transition phase at 2.5 when he was going from cot to bed, when i was waking up ealrier and earlier and coming though to ur bedroom).

So, I would and have been happy leaving him in his cot or bed, even in strange places, knowing that he won't wake up. And no, I never needed to use sedatives to have that confidence - I just knew my child. Once he's asleep, he's out for the count.

true McDreamy!!

Part of the reason we generally can't allow small children out to play in public unsupervised is that other parents aren't allowing their children out, either. It's a huge shame - when I was little if I went out to play there would be at least half a dozen other kids playing too. Or we'd call for each other and be off up the woods or into the fields. You don't have that safety in numbers these days.

thank you, morning paper, for posting that article.

To all you bloodthirsty voyeurs, the chavvy grandmother who let the killer dog into the house was acquitted. A fortiori ...

Oliveoil.
Me too.
I was one of 8 and we too were asked to leave and 'go play' in the morning' ( with the warm memory of an affectionate shoe on our bums as we went). The older ones were expected to watch the younger ones from a very early age and everyone in our road and our area did the same. I have pictures of my smaller brother screaming sitting in the long grass. Older sibs would sit him in it at the park and he was too small to walk and get out of it. They thought it was hilarious. My eldest brother must have been circa 12 years but ALL the kids watched all the small ones and if something happened it was regarded as an accident - not neglect.
I had a fab childhood and regret the closeting that happens now. It has been repeatdely quoted on radio 5 in a series of articles over the last few months that children in the UK have the worst childhoods of any in Europe. It is just a sad state of affairs

Why are we all bloodthirsty voyeurs for discussing this - the McGanns have wanted people to talk about it and publicise it that is what their campaign is about they started this ball rolling.

What then happens is that people discuss it and they don't always stay with in the parameters which the original 'campaign' was all about - thats normal human behaviour - I think it is far more hurtful not to discuss it or say anything than to discuss it honestly and say what you actually feel.

I am sure the McGanns are aware that some public feeling is against them - they are educated not niave and stupid.

I didn't want to get into this but I said from the start that they seem too composed - I would be hysterical if either of mine went missing - but from reading the papers -Telegraph/Mail and Observer! just to get a balanced view - I now feel that they didn't do anything wrong and are just very staid composed people.

I don't see how it is wrong to discuss lots of the things we do on mumsnet and not this???

I haven't posted on any of these theads, but Ipanema Girl has just said almost everything I feel about the whole farrago (the case and the Mumsnet infighting)

I find it almost unimaginable (morally and circumstantially) that the McCanns are guilty, but I accept that's probably down to what I've seen in the media and my own values clouding my judgement.

They may appear composed in public but how does anyone know what they are like in private, among their own family and friends? Lots of people try very hard to maintain some composure in public when they are under stress. It used to be considered admirable and a defining characteristic of the English. Or it may come naturally to you, especially if it is an essential part of your professional behaviour. As a doctor, for instance.

Not to mention of course, that I'm in no position to judge, and nor is anyone else posting on this thread.

Twinkle, I have no comment at all about the rest of your post but I have to say, with respect, you have absoloutely no idea how you would react if your child went missing for 4 months, unless your child has ever been misiing for four months.
Along with giving birth for the first time, loosing a child, giving birth to a child with a profound disability etc etc it is an experience you can only understand by experinceing it.

Pagwatch - you are right, "it is just a sad state of affairs" - but one that we as parents have the power to change.

I'm trying and I'm right behind you prettybird.
I let my 14 year old son take DD to the park on his own during the hoildays because they pleaded so. Realised with a jolt that whilst DS1 is fantabulous and sensible I was aware that the world may well tut. But I extended my meagre bossom amd remembered that they are my children.

I was taking my baby sister to the park when I was 14! Only problem was when she was a little older she worked out calling me 'mummy' would really embarrass me.

!

I know I have no idea how it must be to have your child missing but I am sure I wouldn't be able to function properly or at all, speak or even string 2 words together - so from my point of view they were very composed and that of all my friends who as parents have discussed this I hasten to add.

There was a coule on the news the other night who were begging their 15 year old who had run away from home to come back - they were sobbing and having a hard time talking - DH said - that is how I would be (meaning himself), then he said actually I would be worse than that and she has just run away (meaning the 15 year old compared to Madeleine McGann being a lot younger and having been abducted) - very strange that those McGanns were so composed - but I said to him being the voice of reason and educated by mumsnet that equally the people sobbing and having a really hard time having to speak to the press could have done away with their child!

I don't think it is strange at all, esp as due tot he nature of their jobs they will probably have had to deal with very stressful/distressing situations whilst remaining composoed. Everyone deals with grief and stress in different ways. One will be hysterical, others calm, many somewhere in the middle. Yes, the McCanns appear calm when speaking. We do not know what they are like out of the media's eyes.

I ahve spoken with people at grief striken times before and they have been remarkably calm, esp if in a more formal situation having to deal with stuff.