Madeleine McCann

[morningpaper]

Instead of starting lots of new posts about Madeleine, could I politely request that anyone who wants to post on the subject please post on this one thread? (N.B. Duplicate threads may be flamed hysterically.)

Please note that this thread is not to criticise Madeleine's parents or family, as this is not in the spirit of Mumsnet.

Please can I take the liberty to quote from this article:

"This is the real life of Kate and Gerry McCann, and it must now have become a place of agony beyond all understanding. Pity them, if you have any compassion at all, and demonstrate the minimum of grace: the ability to desist from judgment."

My language gets colourful when I'm upset. Sorry about the "crap".

My gut feeling is, if one or both of the McCann parents are guilty of murder, what hope is there? I can't get my head around it; it actually hurts to think about. It's impossible. I hate being manipulated by the media to such an extent that I'm even beginning to wonder, could she/they have done it? So I refuse to believe that they're guilty until proven beyond all doubt that they're guilty. And then I give up. Humanity's doomed.

What a rant. But I'm upset.

Pennies, you are right, there is not enough paracetamol in a bottle of calpol to kill a child.

Well that other little girl's body was never found (in the article referred to below - Joana?) and there was a conviction.

The murderer committed suicide.

but haven't all the theories been totally far-fetched? even the abduction theory that claimed someone had chosen Madeleine, and waited for just the right time to sneak into the apartment, obviously knowing it must be unlocked, snatching that one child, even though there were younger, thus far more impressionable ones in the room, and leaving without a trace despite a worldwide publicity campaign?

And yet one theory that has never been raised is that Madeleine could have got up, walked out of the apartment, and either come to harm, i.e. in the roadworks that are alledgedly going to be dug up iminently, or fallen victim to an opportunist. And yet no-one seems prepared to even consider that theory, not even the parents.

I do find it strange that they are adament she was abducted and would not consider her having wandered.

Today sleeping pills, before that a syringe. This week hair, earlier on blood. What a load of speculative cobblers.

The only reliable thing about any of this is the gutter press remaining in the gutter.

"Presumed murderer", sorry. We don't know that she's dead.

"What's your problem, compo? You looking to add fuel to the fire of the Calpol theory? "

eh?

No, I'm saying as far as from what I've seen reported there is no evidence that sedation was used to get the kids to sleep whilst they went out. So i don't know why you keep harping on about it fortunecookie.

They might not even have given calpol that evening.

i think there might be too seperate cases.

there was one several years ago, 7 miles from where Madeleine went missing, no body has been found but the mother and uncle have been convicted. The mother apparently had the confession beaten out of her (same police officer is leading the Madeleine enquiry)

there was another girl missing recently, i can not remember if it was in the same area, and the body was found. The abducter was then found hanging from a tree.

Someone saw a man carrying away a sleeping/unconscious child at the time Madeleine presumably went missing. I suppose that's why everyone's convinced she was abducted. Or worse.

Ugh. This is too ghoulish. I'm gone.

From the Daily Mail (yes, I know!):

"French investigative reporter Guilhem Battut said a report outlining how the four-year-old met her death was already with Portuguese prosecutors.

The newspaper France Soir said it contains scientific analysis of the bodily fluids found in the boot of the car hired by Kate and Gerry McCann which "prove that the little girl had ingested medicines, without doubt sleeping pills, in large quantities".

British forensic experts expressed severe doubts about the claim. They said the fluid was only a partial match to Madeleine's DNA and the sample was not strong enough to determine the presence of drugs."

So the sleeping pill claim comes from a French rag, not the Portuguese police, and the British lab refutes it.

the link further down says the sighting of the man carrying the child has now been dis counted

Guilhem Battut works for a French tabloid

Hardly a credible source in my book. He probably chased Diana and Dodi. Okay, maybe not. But he still isn't credible.

but fc the child was never identified to be Madeleine. This was a family friendly resort (although admittedly Mark warner's definition of family friendly and mine differ somewhat) but it's not uncommon for sleeping children to be carried to apartments in the evening if they've fallen asleep at the table/during the entertainment or whatever.

And the only person that said they saw this was a family friend, who strangely didn't come forward for three weeks. why?

I don't buy into the theories that the couple killed Madeleine and hid her body for 25 days and then removed it in the hire car, I simply can't see how that was possible, but I genuinely believe there is far more to this case than that she was abducted. I also think that the family would have been more open to alternative possibilities, ie that she had wandered off if they didn't know anything.

HH, are you sure that 2nd case wasn't the Swiss girl who disappeared on her way to swimming and only her clothes , neatly folded , have been found, no body yet Sounds remarkably similar . The paedophile coincidentally found dead in the locality just so happened to have been in Portugal at the time of MMcC's disappearance. Not getting at you personally, but if it is that one then your vague account just proves the extent of misrumour being perpetrated by the media/these threads and the potential for distortion.

didn't he hang himself after having shot someone? what happened to the guy he shot? I thought the police thought he might have some idea?

Oh look, from the dail mail "Battut is an experienced investigative journalist who has worked on a number of major inquiries, including the death of Prince Diana. "

So, he was on the Diana case.

I think we can disregard this piece of "news".

This is horrible, i think we should all be ashamed of ourselves. I only ever allowed myself to post on these threads to support the Mc Canns, not that it would do any good.

I get sucked in by a desire for NEWS but all i read is speculative, small minded gossip and thats just here, never mind the papers. I think we should all refuse to buy the bloody things, all of them.

yes, that's the one Lizs. I knew there was a link to Portugal but couldn't quite remember the full details

was he on the dianna case? or was he there at the time?

lucyellen, i'm sorry but why should we be 'ashamed of ourselves'?

no one on this thread atm is saying they think the McCanns are guilty and no one is 'gossiping' all we are doing is discussing what is all over the newspapers today. This section is called 'In the news' isn't it?

Do'nt know. I'm speculating.

Reports say he shot himself the day after a shoot out with another man , not sure what the outcome was. Early report here They found her dna in his van and his on her things but no body yet

because, we all know that what is in the paper today is speculative gossip, if we are in turn picking over the bones, we are complicit.

Its such a god awful sad situation, and we are whiling away our fucking spare time with it. Terrible. Don't get me wrong, i know i am just as bad as the rest of you.

I have read most of the Madelaine McCann threads and not really wanted to comment but the thing that keeps coming up is whether the McCanns were right to leave their kids alone in that hotel room and there has been some pretty heated debate on that subject. It seems to me that there is a clear divide between those who would have left their children and those that would not and the most heated and sometimes unpleasant responses are from those who would leave or who have left their children in this manner. Why is this I wonder?

Personally I don t for one minute think the McCanns have killed their daughter and thoroughly agree that no one can possibly say how they would react until faced with this indescribably horrendous situation. The fact is though that this would not have happened if they had not left their children alone. There is no getting away from that and I feel that the McCanns are somewhat arrogant in their refusal to really admit they were at fault by doing so. I would like to ask those on the board who are defending this action whether or not they would still do this themselves after this poor childs disappearance.

I know I will get the usual responses about how its no use blaming them now as they have been punished enough but no one is being punished as much as that little girl for their decisions. I don t want to come across as being judgemental. I feel I am just stating facts. However at the same time I also think that if someone had really set their mind on getting that child or indeed any child there will always be a second when the parents backs are turned. I just think they made it slightly easier than it should have been. Also really tired of reading posts that say that those who think this are rubber necking or enjoying a good old gossip about this tragic situation etc etc. There is not one atom of me that enjoys this. I know this is an extremely emotive subject but if it is up for discussion and I have not begun any of these threads then we are all entitled to say how we feel without being attacked.