Madeleine McCann

[morningpaper]

Instead of starting lots of new posts about Madeleine, could I politely request that anyone who wants to post on the subject please post on this one thread? (N.B. Duplicate threads may be flamed hysterically.)

Please note that this thread is not to criticise Madeleine's parents or family, as this is not in the spirit of Mumsnet.

Please can I take the liberty to quote from this article:

"This is the real life of Kate and Gerry McCann, and it must now have become a place of agony beyond all understanding. Pity them, if you have any compassion at all, and demonstrate the minimum of grace: the ability to desist from judgment."

lipstick - I am sure that most parents will have left their child at some stage while on holiday or whatever - we went on holiday when ours were 8,4,and 2 and went downstairs to the hotel restuarant, relying on the 'listening service' boasted obout by the hotel. About 30 minutes later we saw our eldest being carried into the dining room by one of the hotel staff; the listening service was broken, and ds had wandered out of the room to look for us, after shouting into the intercom for some minutes. He was found on the landing by the waiter.(luckily) Are we irresponsible? If he had fallen into the wrong hands would we be vilified like the poor Mccanns?

So a (genuine) question relating to one of the sub-threads on here...I left DS aged about 4 months alone in our house for about 2.5 hours. He was asleep in his cot. The front door was locked. We were next door for an evening meal. I had a baby monitor in front of me on the table the whole time - I could hear him breathing. I had worried whether what I was doing was right but he was fine and I had a couple of hours actually feeling human. According to some of you what I did was not only wrong but illegal. Is that correct? do I deserve to have DS taken away?

Were you responsible - IMO yes - being parents it is usually on your watch. It's good that nothing happened.

I am on a mission when it comes to these baby listening services. They are dangerous. They do not stop toddlers walking out of rooms. They do not stop fires. They do not always work. Even when working, people do not always hear.

They are only suitable for babies who are firmly trapped in cots and even then beware.

The McCanns didn't use a baby listening service. If Madeleine was abducted from her room it is totally obvious that a baby listening service would not have prevented an abduction.

Elfriend - that's an emotive question - why so emotional?

What you did was entirely different from what the McCanns did. You had a monitor. You could hear your baby. You could run back if anything happened. Entirely different IMO.

we all have our own views and opinions od how old children should be when we leave them or when they should walk to school. no one is right or wrong. personally i would not leave any of my young ones 4,2 and 6 months on their own ANYWHERE unless i can see them eg paying for petrol. and obviously around their own home. i would not allow my children to walk to school on their own unitl at least 12 not matter how far away. i have only just let my dd walk to the shop 5 mins away and she is 13. you have to give them independence i agree but this can be done without puuting them at unnecessary risk. i have a duty to protect my children until the day i die this duty does not disapear with age.

No it is not illegal. There isn't a minimum age - and from waht you describe, you were probably monitoring your child more closely than many parents. Not everyone uses baby monitors - so you probably knew more about what was happeniing to your ds than parents in a big stone house without baby monitors.

elf- whats done is done. ye it is illegal. but what wood concernm i moe the risk of fire. the moniter would not pick up smoke and you would not know if your bay was inhaling by e time you had detected no breathing it may have been too late. just something to think about

The way I see it, with the baby monitor you would of heard your ds still breathing, turning over, or even choking, many people including me have never owned a baby monitor so are less likely to hear these things when only being downstairs and watching the telly, so effectively even though you were next door, you were far more aware of your ds movements than me when I am in the same building.

See how civilised a discussion we can have without the anti-any-form-of-McCann-discussion faction turning up to hurl abuse?

See? There is nothing nasty about this at all, is there?

Please don't prove me wrong by starting to post looney-tune theories now.

sorry about the spelling my keyboard playing up

Why am I so emotional? Two reasons I suppose - Firstly, I did worry whether I was being irresponsible - I was just desperate for a break. I tested the monitor twice that day (with DH stood in the nursery) to make sure it worked and I knew I could be back in his room in about one minute if he cried. All the same... Secondly, I have read some of the anger on these threads (to which I don't contribute); I wonder how I would be judged and whether I really did do wrong - I suspect some would say I did. For what it is worth, we have been out only once since -leaving grandparents in charge. DS is over one year old now.

By the way, Elf, Dell is mistaken when she says that what you did was illegal. It is not illegal. There is no minimum age. You took more precautions than most. You sound like a very responsible parent to me!

x-post, sorry.

i did not think it was ilegal but was told the other day it was i will try and find out for sure. my friend was told by a police man it is ilegal to leave your children in a car on there own and received a warning even though she could see them. (just for info)

this thread is really crap interesting and I can't wait for the next rumour fact to emerge

olive leave these speculators poor people to chat

Dellgirl13, it could also be argued that parents have a duty to teach their kids self-reliance. And that includes letting them learn to jusge danger for themselves - and to problem solve for themselves when things go wrong.

There is apparently a statisictal surge in road traffic accidents amongst 11-12 year olds, which could in part be ddue to the fact that they are suddenly allowed to go to school on thier own without ever having had the chance to learn road sense.

I think it was Pagwatch who mentioned the recent study suggesting the UK children have the "unhappiest" childhoods in Europe - partly due to the lack of freedom that they are affored.

I went to France on my own aged 17. My flight connection at London was too tight (I had to run to make the connection), so my luggage didin't arrive. As a result of having to report the lost luggage, I was then late getting into Paris and across Paris to get the train down to the South of France. I only made it by the skin of my teeth. I don't think I would have been able to cope if that had been my first taste of independence.

Now, Olive, we were doing really quite well without the anti-any-form-of-McCann-discussion faction turning up and being nasty.

Why don't you go and start another thread inviting people to come and be insulted instead of spoiling ours? We're all playing nicely.

You have only been out once?!, remember that when we become parents, we should'nt become prisoners at the same time, you dont have to be at home 24/7 to be a good parent, you can bring your children up well and still have a life f your own, in fact going out and letting your hair down should be in the rule book to save our sanity

Thanks P&P and TC - I did try to reassure myself. Dellgirl - we have smoke monitors upstairs and down (which we test regularly). I am well aware that a baby monitor would not pick this up.

apparently my mum was watching a programme ad someone sid on there t ws ilegal o leave chldren under the age of 14?

prettybird

In our town there are a couple of private schools, pupils are from all over the world, I work for a taxi firm, and at the end and start of every term we take several booking to take children as young as 10 to the airport, or picking up at airport, they fly alone

TC. I know, I am a saddo! We don't have any friends or relatives that live anywhere near us so it is tricky. We have promised ourselves we wil try for a night out before Xmas and ask the nanny to babysit (£££).