Madeleine McCann

[morningpaper]

Instead of starting lots of new posts about Madeleine, could I politely request that anyone who wants to post on the subject please post on this one thread? (N.B. Duplicate threads may be flamed hysterically.)

Please note that this thread is not to criticise Madeleine's parents or family, as this is not in the spirit of Mumsnet.

Please can I take the liberty to quote from this article:

"This is the real life of Kate and Gerry McCann, and it must now have become a place of agony beyond all understanding. Pity them, if you have any compassion at all, and demonstrate the minimum of grace: the ability to desist from judgment."

Not sure how leaving a sleeping child alone in a house/room is encouraging independence?

My son 9, also walks to school on his own.

Without wanting to make a judgement about whether the McCanns are murderers (either accidentally or otherwise), because how the hell do I know, I find it a bit weird to think that people want to donate money to their legal costs to fight any prospective charges.

Because, as I see it, if they are charged, then surely it will be on the basis of actual and substantial evidence? And I think it more likely that the McCanns are actually responsible for whatever happened (again: either accidentally or otherwise) than it is likely a bunch of corrupt (and apparently insane) Portuguese coppers have been planting corpse fluids and handfuls of blonde hair in a hire car.

At present the McCanns' response seems to be that they think they are about to be 'framed'; I for one cannot believe that the Portuguese police has this much corruption on this many levels to have either the instinct or the ability to frame them. Maybe if the McCanns had been holidaying in Zimbabwe or North Korea I might believe it possible...

Yes I know this is all speculation and yes I know that the media is at this case like a pack of devil hounds, but still...I for one would never donate money to parents who may be on the verge of being charged with the murder of their child.

Dunga's post seemed the most anti-McCann stance in that it openly admitted the possibility (a possibility which to me seems so unlikely as to be out of sight) that they may have killed their daughter.

That was the only post that even suggested it was possible that they had killed her.

My view is that there is some gang hostility going on from the old-timers. Leave us alone to natter on about this case without dropping in to be gratuitously offensive, calling us freaks or bumping the thread to oblivion.

Tamz77

There are many peole who believe they are innocent so will happily donate, I think unless it was all planned the parents actions from day one are not the actions of someone who has commited a crime.

this BBC story says the inventor of DNA fingerprinting has offered to be an expert witness for the McCanns.

He says all Madeleine's genetic characteristics would be found in at least one other family member.

Sounds as if he will be keen to explain exactly what DNA forensics can and cannot do.

I wonder if there are communication problems given specialists at the UK labs are presumably talking to the British police who are then talking to Portugese police - so you have the expert/layperson communication gap plus then the language gap on top.

Tamz - if people want to donate to a fund that is expressly for a defence - it is because they do not believe that due process has been followed and are concerned that innocent parents may be found guilty through lack of proper representation. Nothing weird about it. I would feel like donating money to that fund as well as the find Madeleine fund.

... because to me, it is part of a whole ethos of parenting. Ds goes up to his room (sometimes with us, sometimes on his own) and then is confident about going to sleep. Our own bedroom is actually on a different floor of a solid stone house. Personally, I don't see how, unless you are staying in the room with them checking that they are breathing, there is any difference between checking up regularly and leaving them to sleep. In fact, in a holiday situation he probably gets checked more frequently than he does at home (which is often not at all).

Tamz, the Portugese officer who was originally in charge of the case (don't know if he still is) is under investigation for beating up the mother of missing child who was then wrongly convicted of murder. So there is some evidence that the Portugese police have framed one mother of a missing child.

Pedanticandproud and all - Tech's done something whizzy so this thread doesn't self-destruct at 1000 posts - so it is not possible to bump it to oblivion. Do report any posts that you think break our abuse policy.
Thanks,
M Towers

I understand that people believe in their innocence, what I don't understand is how people can donate if there is a significant possibility (ie based on enough evidence to press charges) that they are not.

anyone watching geramy kyle?

WorkersforfreEdam
Apparently that police officer was suspendid from the case a while ago, I certainly hope that is true.

Some people dont see the evidence as a significant possibility of thier guilt.

Thank you Justine.

The expert was on Newsnight last night and was also insistent that context for dna is vital to its credibility . The context in this case is surely so disturbed that any resulting "evidence" is likely to be flawed at best.

The trouble is that with scientific evidence - like DNA or that wretched evidence given by Sir Roy Meadows in the Sally Clarke case - laypeople believe in it.

Imagining myself as a juror, with lots of scientific evidence being presented by a man with a serious quantity of initials after his name, I'd believe it. I wouldn't have the capability not to.

So it's good news for the McCanns that they have found an expert to deal with the DNA evidence.

Also, in fairness to the Portugese police, I think they do have to investigate the parents, don't they?

In these cases the parents are always the first suspects, until eliminated, so not sure why its come 4 months later, unless they have been under survelance(sp) the whole time.

haychee-you taking stick again. thats why i reluctant to post now. seems you can post anything unless its against the mccanns!!

Not just laypeople, Pedantic, judges too. Many miscarriages of justice involve an uncritical approach to expert witnesses. Thinking of Sally Clarke and all the other MSbP cases, as well as the Birmingham Six and the playing cards.

how weird is this?

The front cover of Private Eye was about the Iraq Surge

I did read the Maddieballs though

Link to the Maddieballs please!

gosh totaleclipse, that is strange. I'm glad he's thiking of delaying it

It isn't online and I can't link to my sofa downstairs. There is a nice picture of a naked Vladimir Putin on the [http://www.private-eye.co.uk/ Private Eye]] site though, if you are interested in naked old men. (obviously I'm not. oh no)

Private Eye and Naked Old Man