Madeleine McCann

[morningpaper]

Instead of starting lots of new posts about Madeleine, could I politely request that anyone who wants to post on the subject please post on this one thread? (N.B. Duplicate threads may be flamed hysterically.)

Please note that this thread is not to criticise Madeleine's parents or family, as this is not in the spirit of Mumsnet.

Please can I take the liberty to quote from this article:

"This is the real life of Kate and Gerry McCann, and it must now have become a place of agony beyond all understanding. Pity them, if you have any compassion at all, and demonstrate the minimum of grace: the ability to desist from judgment."

Haychee - it is unnacceptable to thnk that anyone is guilty of anything unless you have hard facts which amount to provable evidence of guilt. Thinking people innocent is acceptable (in the absence of evidence etc) because that should be our default position - decent and moral as you said below.

And intuition on any side of a judgement is simply prejudiced nonsense and not a rational reason for anyone to base any decision on.

That's why.

This is NOT an oldioes v newies discussion - it is a rational v irrational one. As in rational ways to make decisions.

Everyone else - I missed last night's rendezvous at the barricades where everyone developed such brilliant names - where do i find it?

Groundhog day dawns

In return for Nadine posting from the Guardian, may I draw people's attention to this stout column from the Mail?

(May have been posted already but I've been at w*rk for hours and hours)

(btw I spoke to someone who lives in Rothley tonight. She said it's horrible there )

Quote from Nadinebaggot's guardian article "Journalists may have cooked the McCann story to a burnt crisp. But they cook many other stories that way and I say, thank goodness. There are plenty in power who feel too much was written and said on the Royal Navy hostages, on cash-for-honours, on BAE sleaze and on David Kelly. Tough luck on them."

So I spent ages reading a long and detailed article and what's the conclusion? There is none. The Guardian is sitting on the fence again today. AAArgh!

Interesting angle though.

Why is everyone having a go at Haychee?

She thinks they are innocent. she said she comes on here to talk as her dh and mum think they are guilty....she doesn't.

I don't get it????

Thankyou minority rules.

Blu
I know and am fully aware about facts v intuition. My point exacty.
But the oldies v newbies, does exist. I was called loopy further down, for what im not too sure. Also, told to grow up and was on a freakometer! I really dont think these comments are worthy due to my opinion that they are innocent.
Maybe you can shed some light on that for me, because i must be missing something.
(is not meant to come accross as attacking, i seriously dont know why, and i know it wasnt you blu)

Because we find the endless speculation and rather egocentric talk about 'intuition' 'feeling in my bones' or whatever opinion is spouted despite the lack of real news offensive, regardless of whether you think they are guilty or not. The real people involved have been totally bypassed in everyone's desire to GOSSIP.

Hi, am back, albeit momentarily...
just wanted to add that I added a fairly sensible, reasoned opinion about Madeleine and her siblings being left alone. I also said I have no idea whether or not the McCann parents killed their daughter. I do not want to speculate about this as I, like the rest of us, do not know. It seems that there are 2 clear schools of thought on this thread that will never agree. That does not mean it is necessary to bitch and bully at others.
Incidentally, I did not look up MM on google (why would I?),,I was looking for some information for a work related issue. I really wish I had not!

LL you are right, brill article

Very good article I agree. superbly written. Captures it all really eh!

Good article

I think these comments sum it up:

...with every hour that passes we seem to forget that we have a presumption of innocence in this country.

They [media] don't know. I don't know. You don't know. None of us knows.

Too true and perhaps we should all reserve judgement until facts prove otherwise.

never thought i'd agree almost whole heartedly with boris johnson. but there you go! well said.

haychee it seems to me you have been misunderstood.

I believe the McCanns are innocent, but my opinion is that they should never have left their 3 children alone. This does not stop me from feeling desperately sorry for them.

It is also my opinion that prettybird is irresponsible for leaving her young child alone in a hotel room.

The comment about groundhog day was funny. I liked that.

But I do think it is unfair for people who don't want this subject discussed to come on here, insult new posters, and try to bully them into going away.

If you find the discussions distasteful - and I cannot imagine why given that 100% of the posters who expressed an opinion thought the McCanns were innocent - then don't join the thread.

All these sententious comments on the presumption of innocence are totally unnecessary. Everyone here has correctly and fairly presumed them to be innocent.

Message withdrawn

Message withdrawn

Pedanticandproud - not quite true. There is at least one person on this thread alone who has presumed them guilty. And people are not saying they do not want a discussion. However people do object to the nasty speculation that has been occuring on many of the MM threads here on MN. There is, IMO, a big difference between discussion and speculation.

Agree with hula - there is a huge difference between discussion of facts, of which there are actually precious few in the public domain, and wild, sensationalist and downright macabre speculation to fill in the perceived gaps of which there are many. The latter has become self perpetuating on so many threads and some members , many of whom happen to be recent joiners or hitherto lurkers, appear to take particulur delight in this.

Well Hula, I have reread the entire thread, and I have not found one person who said that the McCanns were responsible for killing their daughter.

Of course I may have missed it. Would you like to show me the post I have missed?

That's fine andlipsticktoo - you are netiteld to your opinion. We all have different parenting styles.

You probably also think that we are irresponsible for letting our 7 year old walk to school on his own (10-15 minute walk), whereas we are proud that we have taught him the traffic awareness to be able to do so and he is proud that we are trusting him with this independence - and it is also boosting his self confidence.

I personally think as parents we have a duty to encourage self-reliance and to let go of the apron strings - and that this starts in small increments from when he was young. We didn't have stair gates - quite deliberately, so that he could learn stairs. We all make our own judgements about risk and make are own assessemt of real versus pereceived risk. I just don't perceive actual risk in the same way that you do.

Although she may not say the actual words, dunga on Wed 12-Sep-07 21:58:04 seems preety sure, don't you think? And on other threads posters have said very similar things. It is these types of comments people have been annoyed with in the past.