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Why the Madeleine critics make me mad

336 replies

mumofteens · 18/08/2007 16:30

It makes me mad to still be hearing pompous, judgemental, illogical people criticising the parents of Madeleine about their decision to eat nearby while the children were in the room, and even going so far as to say that social services should be involved.

Here's why. If you have ever been to a Mark Warner resort you will know that there is (or used to be) a baby sitting service available whereby a nanny walks around the floors of the hotel while you dine in the restaurant somewhere else in the hotel. We have used this ourselves. Now, if someone was determined to abduct a child, they could walk into the hotel and take a child from the unlocked room while the nanny is walking on other floors, or is inside a room comforting a crying child. Like most hotels, people come and go without reception turning a hair. Security is usually incredibly lax in hotels and no-one knows who is staying there, who has come in just for a meal or drink and who is a friend of guests. Equally, someone could let themselves in/out of a downstairs window or back entrance if they did not want to walk past reception.

Are the critics suggesting that all the parents who have used such services should have their children taken away by social services?

Ditto with the baby listening services that people use in hotels when reception listen in for crying babies. A person of criminal intent could let themselves into the room, (assuming it had been left unlocked due to a fear of fire) and abduct a child.

You could be asleep in you house and someone could break in and take a baby/child while you were asleep. You could be sitting in the garden while you child was asleep in the house and the same thing could happen. Equally, in my experience, schools and hospitals are often extraordinarily lax about security with people coming and going. One of my daughters had to spend quite a bit of time in hospital and the staff were incredibly laissez-faire about security with hoards of people traipsing in and out of the ward day and night. Someone could easily have taken my child while I nipped off to the loo.

You could watch your child 24 hours a day and something bad could happen - a wierdo could grab them and hurt them etc. Someone was attacked in the park by a wierdo recently - if that had been a child, would the parents have been deemed neligent for allowing their children to walk (with them) in the park?

The point is - if someone is determined to snatch a baby/child, or do something horrible they will find a way to do it.

In terms of risk assessment, the most dangerous place for your child to be is near the road. Yet we all happily put our children in cars every day. Every single week children are killed in cars on the roads, driven by law-abiding, caring parents.

There is also a danger associated with babysitters. We used one for a stage who came highly recommended (she was a nanny at the creche at the prestigious Harbour Club in Chelsea). In fact, she was a criminal with a huge history of stealing. Another friend used one who again came with glowing references but who was in fact a serious drug-addict. I would rather have my children on their own in the house than locked up in a house with a drug addict/criminal.

There is also a danger of putting a child in a creche. One of mine was once badly attacked by another child and could have lost her eye. This would not have happened if she had not been in the creche.

See what I mean? There are risks associated with every single thing we do/don't do. In the context of the big bad world, the possibility of accidents and the reality that not all people looking after children are necessarily very responsible (and that other children can cause accidents), having the children sleeping nearby on their own might have seemed like the lesser of a number of evils.

Having said all that, I do not want to scare people. I do not think that there are bogeymen around every corner. We give our children quite a bit of freedom and do not worry. The main thing I worry about is road accidents as statistically this is by far the most dangerous place to be.

OP posts:
SueW · 20/08/2007 22:26

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at OP's request.

ELF1981 · 20/08/2007 22:27

UCM, I would be off too. Bad enough (though very understandable) not being about to talk about She Who Can Now Be Named but I would be proper pissed if this subject was "banned"
We are all adults with our own minds, and in many cases talking / posting about events help people process in their own minds what has gone on.

kentgirl73 · 20/08/2007 22:29

The mystery would have been solved sooner

expatinscotland · 20/08/2007 22:32

That's not a given. And tbh I find that a very arrogant assumption, that the whole reason she's not been found is because Portuguese and European police are inferior to British. We don't know that.

ELF1981 · 20/08/2007 22:33

This will be my final post before bed, I will look at lunch tomorrow (either while chewing my fingernails off waiting for my accounting exam results, or between sobs of my failure!).

I think this thread on a whole is quite restrained. I have heard MANY things said about the McCann family, by people who do not have children and those who do. From unquestioning sympathy, understandablity, empathy, to actively blaming the parents, suspecting the family, hyped up and carried away about by stories of the children being sedated, to calling for the family to face charges, to criticising the media that not one paper uttered a bad word about what was the circumstances behind it, to becomming angry at the changing factors of the story, there have been so many different reactions that I have seen.

Every single person who has expressd a different view ALL wants a happy outcome to this story.

It is possible to EXPRESS different views about a situation but still want the same resolution. And I cannot see what is wrong with that.

ELF1981 · 20/08/2007 22:35

Okay, I lied, last one...

Kentgirl, I dont think that is true. You could say that about any factors, including this which I have heard "if the case wasnt so saturated in the media, perhaps the person who had Madeline would release her, how can they let her go if everybody in the world is looking for her"

I'm not saying it is true, but you could say it about any aspect of the case.

kentgirl73 · 20/08/2007 22:36

With all the heightened activity does that not have anything to do with the recent british police? Who knows but lets just hope it never happens again, a situation like this!

kentgirl73 · 20/08/2007 22:37

Elf, hope your nails arent too bitten! Nite

noddyholder · 20/08/2007 22:51

I hate the assumption that any police other than the British are competent in these things.The British have been involved more or less from the start and they haven't exactly solved it! Just because the portugese don't deal with the media in the same way doesn't make them wrong.They also weren't prepared to be guided ny the McGanns down the abduction route without exploring other avenues which was a good move imo.Agree with teh others who have said that criticising the McGanns and hoping for the little girls safe return are mot mutually exclusive.

MiuMau · 21/08/2007 11:29

Negligence defined in a dictionary: 1 lack of proper care or attention; neglect: Negligence was the cause of the accident. 2 a careless or indifferent act. 3 carelessness; indifference.

Was leaving three extremely young, helpless children alone, four nights in a row, in an unfamiliar, unlocked, ground floor apartment, surrounded by roads and a swimming pool, an indifferent, careless and thus neglectful act?
Yes, definitively.

Neglect is a form of abuse and an opportunity makes the thief. Maddy's parents created that opportunity through their neglectful and abusive patterns of behavior. So they are responsible in this horrible case as well and they should be taken to court. People have gone to court in UK for less.

Their massive media campaign is not only about Madeleine. It is very much about them and people's perception management. They've made themselves seem indispensable for finding their daughter. Adding the religious aspect to it all, they've conveniently attached positive qualities and perceptions to their media image.

They've very much made themselves celebrities. Unfortunately in UK most celebrities appear to be above the law (i.e. Doherty, Moss). Their media campaign is manipulative, has misleading elements to it and has created a strong, almost fanatic and irrational body of supporters who are idealizing and defending them. Unsurprisingly, not an interview is published without a clear reference to these supporters. Maddy's parents have also actively minimized their responsibility on the outcome of this disaster.

I call it as I see it. In my opinion, Maddy's parents are running amok, evading the justice. The only true victim of this appalling case is little Madeleine.

This case has clearly demonstrated, once again, that media is strongly compromised and solely interested in making profit. It is not interested in open debate. Nor can it be expected to promote what is right.

Kathyis6incheshigh · 21/08/2007 11:33

MiuMau, given that that was your only post on Mumsnet, I rather think you are a troll. Go away.

noddyholder · 21/08/2007 11:40

Considering how the press usually report these things and with all the inconsistencies in the statements etc I am surprised by how little there has been in the british press about this case.

Hurlyburly · 21/08/2007 11:44

Further to MM's post, which seems unkind to me, there was actually petition asking for the McCanns to be prosecuted. The petition was thrown out and the CPS (who reportedly did meet to discuss whether or not prosecution was in order) ruled that they had no jurisdiction in Portugal. So the Portugese press took up the baton and starting pushing for action to be taken against the parents. All this stuff, like MM's post, amounts to kicking people when they are down.

To say that what they did was wrong is not to want to put them in prison for it. Surely, surely, they've suffered enough? Why is there all this vindictiveness towards the McCanns?

aloha · 21/08/2007 12:07

Well, so far, indirectly because of the McCanns' much-reviled attempts to keep their daughter's disappearance in the news, two child abusers have been arrested and two small children rescued. I think people like to forget that.
I find it horrible that people hate them so much. They made a stupid, stupid misjudgement, but I also think we forget that when I was a child, which is not THAT long ago it was perfectly normal to leave prams outside shops, to leave kids in cars outside pubs, to leave children in tents on campsites. Nobody batted an eyelid. Yes things have changed, I wouldn't do what they did (not because of fear of abduction but for numerous other reasons) but the hatred they have attracted is so repellent. They are constantly accused of murdering their own daughter, of stealing money, of all sorts of things for which there is not a shred of evidence. I should leave this alone. It's not pretty.

Anyway, the story I referred to earlier.
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article2007881.ece

MiuMau · 21/08/2007 12:11

To define and to denounce abuse is in the interest of children who cannot defend nor protect themselves. Laws regarding abuse exist and are there to protect the vulnerable minors. I could argue that if there was less 'understanding' of the abusers in this world, there would be fewer victims of abuse as well, as a logical result and consequence.

I doubt the parents would go to prison, but prosecuting them would send a clear message to other 'lax', irresponsible and indifferent parents and carers.

aloha · 21/08/2007 12:12

That's a horrible, shameful post.

Kathyis6incheshigh · 21/08/2007 12:16

I would ignore MiuMau, really. S/he has just come on Mumsnet to stir things up.

aloha · 21/08/2007 12:18

Yes, she's probably vented her bile on all the many really nasty websites devoted to the case, and so has moved on here.

Rhubarb · 21/08/2007 12:23

Shameful that people hide behind assumed names to launch their cowardly and spiteful posts against 2 parents who have lost their daughter.

We all make bad decisions as parents but luckily most of us get away with it. I don't know one parent who has never ever done anything they regret. But somehow, when things like this happens, as well as bringing out the caring, generous side of people, it also brings the cockroaches out of the woodwork who like nothing more than to beat people already down, just to make themselves seem more powerful. I would suggest that these people obviously suffer from low self-esteem and carry a lot of chips on their shoulders.

And I'll bet they don't have the courage of their convictions to air their spiteful views in public under their real names.

The McCanns charity are fighting for ALL missing children out there. Since the case came about, numerous articles have been written about child trafficking and undercover reporters have discovered shocking evidence that this is rife in poor countries. I wonder if this would have been done had this abduction case not come about? They have highlighted missing children all over the world and brought it to the attention of the world's media.

They have suffered. But instead of enclosing themselves in a blanket of grief, they have campaigned for other children and other parents. They have tried to turn a horrible, tragic negative into something resembling a positive. I wonder how many of us would have the courage to do that if we were in their shoes?

totaleclipse · 21/08/2007 12:23

The parents did what they did, it cant be changed, whats important now is finding Madeleine, everything else should be put on the back burner.

MiuMau · 21/08/2007 12:28

If you have a problem with things being stirred up, you must fundamentally have a problem with questioning things. I question the parents' approach to child rearing, which quite didn't work for obvious reasons.
Why do we resist questioning?
Why do we resist change?

totaleclipse · 21/08/2007 12:30

Because it aint important right now, none of this crap is going to help madeleine!!!!

Kathyis6incheshigh · 21/08/2007 12:31

"If you have a problem with things being stirred up, you must fundamentally have a problem with questioning things. "

PMSL.

Rhubarb · 21/08/2007 12:32

I question the 'blame culture'.

Why do you need to blame the parents? Why does someone have to be at fault? What point would there be in prosecuting people who have already been punished by having their daughter taken from them? What good would that do? What message would it send out that having their daughter kidnapped hasn't already delivered? Do you honestly believe that as parents we can prevent every hypothetical thing happening to our children?

And most importantly, why, in this day and age, can we not leave a sleeping child in safety? WHY do we have to be aware of paedophiles on every corner? WHY are our children not safe from these monsters?

ELF1981 · 21/08/2007 12:42

I dont think the parents should be prosecutred but out of interest, is anything happening when they return to the UK?

My daughter fell off the bed one morning and we had the HV's around to check whether the house was safe and basically if they needed to interveen. They basically said "well, we think it was just an accident..."

I am not equating a child falling off the bed with one missing, but I believe that the petition that was started was to ensure the family would be looked into, not prosecuted?