Page 5 | Fox Hunting

gump · 16/09/2004 15:27

foxes killing rabbits and chickens is nature

totally agree though about drugs being tested on animals. If you are put in that position where your loved one is ill, you would take whatever makes them better. Not everyone is a martyr

Twinkie · 16/09/2004 15:34

But rabbits are cute and fluffy and foxes aren't are savage flea bitten vermin - I come from simple folk and we use simple logic!!

Can't take this at all seriously or get heated up about it!! (So I won't post anmymore!!)

gump · 16/09/2004 15:36

foxes are very entertaining though and there 'talking' is lovely

Tinker · 16/09/2004 15:36

sophable - it was in the manifesto, a commitment to get it resolved during this Parliament. Will be very pleased if it is banned

NomDePlume · 16/09/2004 15:43

I agree to a degree with medical vivisection, it is often the lesser of many evils, but I absolutely do not agree with cosmetic vivisection. Apologies if my vivisection comment caused confusion. I really mustlearn to elaborate on my statements !

miggy · 16/09/2004 15:54

OK flame suit on...
I live in the country and keep chickens so hate foxes, do ride but dont hunt-partly because im not sure if its humane and mainly because i'm not brave enough (for physical dangers not verbal abuse!). I do work with some beagle hunt kennels though, they have about 150 dogs-all fab dogs but would not make pets and will have to be destroyed and I will probably have to do it which is not a pleasant thought. You cant significantly decrease numbers in 18mths. This pack is a foot hunt and it is not the landed gentry that enjoys it but ordainery country people and farmers.
There are much worse animal welfare issues than this, battery farming for one-affects millions of animals. This is freely admitted by supporters of the bill. There was an interesting debate on R4 yesterday where even the rampant supporters of the bill admitted as much and also basically said they didnt give a toss about foxes but that hunting was "like the house of lords" one of the few remaining hide outs of the aristocracy who rule the countryside-utter tosh. A wide spectrum of people hunt, very few are "aristocracy" and they do not control the countryside. For those interested, a ban on hunting was the prelude to banning private schools (the other hang out of the aristocracy!)
If hunts are organised after the ban-I will be there to stand up for the rights of the countryside (as long as they skip the scary jumping bit )
And pagan-our family went on the anti-war march too

marialuisa · 16/09/2004 16:16

NdP, vivisection for cosmetic research hasn't been allowed in the U.K. for about 15 years. practice had stopped long before legal ban was introduced.

ladywallopofcod · 16/09/2004 16:17

foxes tails are nice though

CountessDracula · 16/09/2004 16:22

Would make good covers for tv boom mics

Original poster

Uhu · 16/09/2004 17:45

Miggy, you say that if hunts are organised you will be there to stand up for the rights of the countryside. Correct me if I'm wrong but many people who live in the countryside do not agree with fox-hunting and welcome the ban so contrary to what you and the Country Alliance think, you do not speak exclusively for the countryside. In addition, rising crime is always one of the issues raised by people in the countryside. If you attend a hunt, that will be illegal. Do you consider yourself a law abiding citizen or are you one of those who chooses which laws to uphold e.g like those who ignore the ban on using mobile phones whilst driving. If you attend an illegal hunt and your house is burgled, would you regard the thief as a criminal? Will you expect the police to perform there duty and apprehend the thief? After all, he/she is breaking the law, just like you will be.

Our government was democratically elected by the people and whether or not you agree with the laws they pass, that is what they are there to do. If everyone could pick and choose which laws to uphold, we would soon descend into anarchy. If you do not agree with the law, you can use the ballot box. That's how democracy is suppose to work.

It will be interesting to see how the Tories respond to illegal hunts, especially as they say that they will repeal the law if elected at the next general election. After all, aren't they the party of law and order, back to basics,no such thing as society, blah, blah, blah?

OP posts:

Tinker · 16/09/2004 19:17

Bet a Tory MP let those protestors in yesterday...

ladywallopofcod · 16/09/2004 19:20

or a duster?

Tinker · 16/09/2004 19:30

a duster? What, a square yellow piece of cloth let them in?

pixel · 16/09/2004 19:48

This bill is not an animal welfare bill. No-one has said that foxes will not be killed-just that they will not be killed with dogs. It is easy to say 'well shoot them it is more humane' but how many people can guarantee that every fox they shoot will be killed outright? How many foxes will be forced to die an agonising death from gangrene? Also, I can't help thinking that there is some degree of 'natural selection' in the hunt. After all, many fit healthy foxes escape whilst the old and sick will be caught. Farmers roaming around with guns will kill any fox they see regardless. Will there be a 'season' for shooting as there is for hunting? Or will there be loads of cubs left to starve because their mother has been shot? I think foxes are beautiful creatures but I am trying to see both sides. It is not so black and white when you start to think about it.

stupidgirl · 16/09/2004 20:23

Ok, I've read some, but not all of this thread. I used to be a hunt saboteur, so you can guess where I stand on this issue.

It is not true that without control fox numbers would become out of control. Their population is self-limiting acording to the amount of food available.

Foxes kill all the chickens in the coop because they will then (if not disturbed) come back and take all of them to bury and store for times when food is short. Foxes aren't evil, just feeding their families like the rest of us

All the stuff about jobs being lost and animals being killed is a load of rubbish. Hunting isn't the only horse-related industry and while it will mean some jobs being lost, it is by no means as many as the countryside alliance claim

Also, vivisection has been responsible for holding up many medical advancements. Human anatomy is too different from the anatomy of the animals which are being experimented on, and the information gained is rarely transferrable. You can even get different results to your experiments by changing the breed of dog you use.

beansmum · 16/09/2004 20:27

what's going to happen to all the hunting dogs? they can't be kept as pets.

stupidgirl · 16/09/2004 20:37

They can be used for drag hunting and the like, and some of them can be rehomed, I know of dogs that have been liberated from hunting kennels and rehomed with families.

Mirage · 16/09/2004 20:54

I have to agree with Countess Dracula.

How many of those MPS went home that night,after congratulating themselves on standing up for animal welfare & ate factory farmed chicken?

IMO Tony Blair only pushed this law through to try & regain his credibilty with the voters.

stupidgirl · 16/09/2004 21:02

I agree Mirage, but in this kind of case do the motives matter? It is a (small) step in the right direction all the same.

edam · 16/09/2004 21:04

When fox-hunting was suspended during the foot and mouth crisis, fox numbers didn't change. So hunting has absolutely naff all to do with 'controlling' numbers of foxes. It's about people enjoying themselves, having a lovely, exciting, sociable ride with some poor dumb animal being terrified, exhausted and ripped to shreds at the end of it. Just as bad as bear-baiting, IMO, but I bet there were people who enjoyed that too and moaned about 'haven't MPs got better things to do'.
I grew up in the countryside and plenty of people there don't like fox-hunting. But are often too scared to speak up because when you live in a small community, and you are criticising powerful people then you can get into real trouble. Hunts are arrogant, they ride across land without permission, the dogs attack children's pets, they actually set up artificial earths in order to encourage foxes to breed so they can have the pleasure of torturing them and then lie through their teeth that it's about pest control!
Can you tell I don't approve?

edam · 16/09/2004 21:06

Oh, and I'd be delighted if everyone stopped eating industrially-farmed animals too. I'm a vegetarian.

yingers74 · 16/09/2004 21:07

politics is all about compromise and principles fall to the way side. Those politicians who stick to their beliefs never get to the top, I don't expect much from politicians anymore! at least with this issue they finally went through with it as opposed just talk about it!

stupidgirl · 16/09/2004 21:14

Ditto, Edam, well said.

beansmum · 16/09/2004 21:19

It seems to me that the hunting ban is more about targeting the way of life of the people that typically hunt (not me by the way, never been on a horse in my life) than it is about saving the fox. pretty good way of getting us to forget about the iraq war as well

stupidgirl · 16/09/2004 21:35

Beansmum, what do you mean about targetting a way of life?

As I said before, I'm not convinced the PM's motives are entirely pure (in fact, I'm certain they aren't.

Oh, and not everyone who rides horses hunts. I have ridden since i was 9 or so, and had my own horse, until I started having babies and had to give up.