'Stressed' father batters his 2 yr old daughter

[Lovecat]

story here

Poor little girl. It says he's been sectioned, shame he couldn't have gotten help sooner...

My only point is that it isn't something that we need pointing out - anything can happen to our children and I think we tend to spend too much time thinking of all the bad things that can happen, rather than thinking of the good.

My dad had his breakdown, my Aunt, Mum & sister have all been on antidepreants so its something I am aware of.

Thing is Elf you are aware- so many others aren't I suppose (wasnt me repsonsible for the post you didnt like btw, just doing my usual rumination thing) and need it spelled out to them that it could affect them.

can somebody please explain to me why its ok for somebody with mental health problems to lose their temper to the point of killing a child?

surely,to be able to function in society,hold down a jod etc,a person suffering a serious MH condition would need to have a certain amount of control over their actions.so why is it ok for them to kill somebody?

this is a genuine question,btw.im am not ignorant,i am not as knowledgable as some of the highly qualified peple on here,but i have done voluntary work in the mental health field.i would just like to know why those who have sympathy for this man feel that way.

please excuse my many typos

It's a tragedy for all concerned in this instance.

I would argue that this man did not "lose his temper" in the usual sense of those words; he was clearly not of sound mind when he carried out the attack.

Sectioning of people is not done on a whim. His actions were likely driven by an acute pyschotic episode which in all probability could not have been foreseen by either him or his family. It also appears that people who know him noted him having no prior mental health issues.

divastrop if someone has a serious mental illness and has a relapse it can manifest itself in different ways. People can get specific delusions which place specific individuals at risk. He may have been relapsing for a while, then it became a full blown relapse which led to the awful situation we are all talking about. It's not as clear cut as saying if someone can hold down a job they are responsible for everything that happens as their MH problem can't be that severe. Much more complex than that.

My first thought was surely his mental health problems would have impaired his ability to function in such a responsible job?

Perhaps he was a bully who terorised his family with violence, we just don't know.

I think it's more likely to have been (just on my instinct) a case of him coming slowly "unhinged" with small signs that he didn't talk to anyone about that got steadily worse culminating in this hideous attack. A mad moment, that changed everything forever.

The poor, poor Mother, imagine what she has witnessed

'lose their temper to the point of killing a child? '

its a good question
depending on condition (plummymummy mentions delusatory behaviors for example) they can factorrs which control their behaviours; other people lose the cut off points we take for granted, lose the basic ability to control themselves (there can be a set cut off point) and generaly not be able to take responsibility.

There's also an anology that is popularly used of a jug- each person has ajug and the amount of fluid in it represents residual stress, its when the jug overflows that breakdowns occur- if someone has a large amount of basic stress then it only takes a small amount to cause the overflow, whereas some other relaxed people can cope with quite major events as their stress baseline is lower. Diet, health, genes, exercise also affect how people process stress and how much ends up in the 'jug'

if that makes sense?

aand thats before you even get onto conditions where sense of right and wrong simply don't exist, oor where the world focuses around their needs not others

This is frightening, my DP is under so much strain just now - i should be kinder to him. NOT that i think he would do anything like this, but it makes you think.......poor little girl.

hatrick-i couldnt word the question right.

it does make more sense to me now.i have heard the 'jug' analogy before.

so tragic that this happened

I worked with someone who had a mental breakdown. I saw him at work on the friday, he was fine. On the saturday he had a breakdown. His house mate came home to find him in the lounge shouting, screaming, incoherent, he didnt recognize her, didn't recognize his parents who she called to come and see him, he was sectioned and spent about three months in a psychiatric unit, the breakdown was caused by some kind of chemical imbalance, with a lot of medication and time he made a recovery and came back to work - if you didn't know you would never have guessed.

It can be like a switch. Mental illness can come on as quickly as say, a stroke, or heart attack, but because it's not physical it's much harder to comprehend.

In any investment bank, bank or other institution large numbers of people will have various forms of mental illness. People don't talk about it. Many will be on cocaine too and others only getting through the day by use of alcohol (see that mumsnet thread on alcohol etc recently even). Others will have other psychiatric conditions (see how many mumsnet threads on depression etc). People just don't tend to talk about it much at work but of course it's there as much as on the shop floor. I suspect it's worse if you're at home with children as that is very stressful which is why the housewife option may not be very good for your mental health and more women than men harm their children (probably because more women than men care for children).

Xenia I agree with the point about home being more stressful; no matter how stressful the job, you are with other adults who do (usually!) obey the social 'norms' that make our lives liveable.

Children are not reasonable human beings and they can bring the most sane of people to the brink; you only need to look at the smacking threads on here to see there are many, many parents who have hit their children even though they don't agree with it and it's not a strategy that they want to use....it happens because kids are stressful and exhausting.

That's one reason maybe that this chap was able to function at work, but still be this ill and need sectioning.

It's very refreshing to read so many posts showing insight/awareness into mental health issues

Oooo plummy...only a technicality but important none the less,( also ASWs I work wirh would kick my ass if I said it...),a S.2 can't be converted,( that implies something automatic happening ),a fresh application/assessment has to take place for a S.3....And ime a S.3 is frequently unsuccessful at this stage. Just to illustrate that the process is really v.rigorous.
Honoria...am surprised, as I frequently have seen people on S.2s who indeed do turn out not to have a serious mental illness....it is an assessment section after all.
Ian Huntley was indeed admitted under a S.2,( unusually, and this very rarely happens ),which was followed by at least one more S.2....implying that the assessment was not complete and needed to be continued. He was eventually discharged from his S.2 and found not to be suffeing from a mental illness within the meaning and scope of the act. You may recall that he several times since then has attempted suicide. That does not rule out that he may be suffering from some other mental condition,( same as this other chap perhaps ? ),that cannot be adressed by the act....principally because,( erroneously imo...),it is not thought to be treatable.
We do not have much info about what happened in this other case, and so there is lttle point in speculating.
Are there any ASWs on the thread ?

Hi Mozhe - re conversion, yes of course you are quite right. Was aware of it when typed it but could not be bothered to change it Of course you are right - it must be a fresh application. However, in the case of anyone seen to be suffering mental distress it frequently becomes a Sec 3. I work on a PICU and the majority of the time patients go on to a 3, but I accept that in general acute services this is not necessarily the case. Also ime people with disorders considered untreatable are frequently sectioned (personality disordered individuals)in order to protect themselves or others from harm. All that is being provided for them is containment.

Yes it's sad....I would always try my utmost never to allow a PD patient to be sectioned, it almost always makes things worse....Luckily it rarely happens on my patch as ASWs all brilliant folks..( cannot beleive no ASWs around to hear this praise !)

It's a shame you don't work where I do then