The government doctors advice has changed now it is NO alcohol in pregnancy ane when trying to conceive at all

[zippitippi]

.....

early alcohol can damage the egg and cause miscarriage and facial deformities, later it can cause a spectrum of brain damage and low birth weight

so the new advice is abstinence

this brings this country into line with eg the US

interestingly obstetricians are sticking with 1 to 2 units a week

times online

Nothing like this goes on in France.....they think it's ridiculous, and I agree...They are v.draconian on the weight thing though but maybe that isn't such a bad thing, so many people seem to regard pregnancy as an excuse to just eat their heads off...

Also was told by midwife today to wear lipstick,( normally do, just in case you think things in the mozhe household are slipping....), and ' make the most of my appearance ! For once was speechless....but I guess it was pretty funny too

Mozhe - are you going to give birth in France? Because you will find that what is uppermost in the obstetrician and midwives' mind is getting you back in shape for your husband (the baby is completely unimportant...).

Yes....I gathered that already..but don't worry I have strong ideas of my own re;birth, and can be quite forceful,( dificult to believe I know...), but at the mo am being sweetness and light Also have only put on 3kgs, so am very popular...

Good for you... presumably you are going to resist being induced at 37 weeks, the episiotomy (to stitch you up tighter afterwards...) and no breastfeeding (OMG??? you might spoil your figure)...

Crikey, a little bit of guidance over alcohol and people are jumping up and down over their rights to drink

Why is this guidance wrong but other guidance has to be followed to the letter?

Guidance is just that, it is recommended to avoid certain things in pregnancy

Would anyone stick a little gin on a newborns dummy or in the bottle? So why is it ok to give it in utero, even just a little bit?

It's not a hard thing to avoid and what does those 1-2 units really give you anyway

And how many people actually pour 1-2 at units at home, my glasses hold about 4!

How many units in a bottle of wine? How many in an average glass?

I didn't know this until recently and I was shocked, I'd been going over the recommended units per weeks for women by way too much and I am a medium drinker (socially, haven't been drunk in years)

It's the same argument for drink drivers, zero units for absolute safety, why is it so insulting to say to pregnant women, best leave it alone there may be a risk

havent read all of thread but if no alcohol advised even at conception well I think the population would run out

i think alcohol is diorectly responsible for a very large percentage of the population even existing!

when i was pg my doctor told me to eat organic veg, limit salmon/tuna etc. and not to worry about alcohol assuming i was only having a glass of wine every now and then
which was what i did have
and would do again

isn't the evidence based on binge drinking.... ?

Peachy I think that is a very good point

The real problem with this advice imo is that because most women realise that being told 1 glass of wine = deadly poison to foetus = rubbish means that they disregard the really important information. The govt that cried wolf too many times...

It's like the list of prohibited food. It now includes so many foods (e.g. salmonella risks, which aren't harmful to foetus at all) that pregnant women risk dying of malnutrition (no eggs, no lettuce, no pineapple!) or ignoring the lot and eating foods which ARE genuinely harmful.

minorityrules: giving gin to your baby and drinking it while pregnant are very different things because of the simple matter of your liver. That isn't a fair comparison.

I don't like it myself. basically the government is saying that it's ok to order woemn about when up the duff with very, very little evidence. note they haven't advised against middle aged men working so much they lose their sense of reason. for which ther would be rather more evidence in support.

I think expat is right - governmnent is covering their arse. Better still, they are getting women to do their work! As a pregnant woman you already feel that you are everyone else's property (people touching your bump, commenting on the size of your bump, asking you when you're having the next one etc etc)and I do now foresee a problem going to a restaurant or bar and having a small glass of wine as everyone will be giving you that look

There's also the matter of "risk" as opposed to "guarantee". Some women drink while pregnant and give birth to healthy babies. So there's a RISK of problems in foetal development with moderate alcohol consumption. How does that compare with the RISK of being run over while pregnant? Or being beaten into miscarrying by your partner? Or of having a baby with birth defects that are purely due to genetics? Not only is nearly every percieved social negative these days blamed on women insisting on acting as human beings rather than knowing their place as service appliances 9never mind worrying about the effect that bad housing, poverty, domestic violence and heavily-marketed processed food might have on child development, let's jut blame it on their mothers), but there's more and more of a mindset that if anything goes wrong with your health or your family members' health, it must somehow be your own fault. Everything in life is a risk, rathe than scaring and blaming women, how about giving proper, backed-up evidence of risk to enable people to make their own decisions?

I didn't drink during pregnancy, if only because I spent the entire 9 months in a state of disbelief that I actually was pg (2nd IVF attempt, sub-fertile, over 35) and didn't want to do anything to jinx it.

When I told the midwife I wasn't drinking (expecting a pat on the head), she looked at me in horror and said "oh, have a glass of wine! It'll help you relax!".

(mind you, she also told me after an intensely stressful emergency c-section that contrary to the standard advice I should get pg again 'as soon as possible' because having had my dd would 'clear the way' for me to have another...)

My gran was made to drink a pint of mackeson's stout (she hated the stuff!) every day of her pregnancies in the 1940's as she was so anaemic she had lost several babies. All my mum's siblings (and indeed my mum) are insufferably intelligent and without evidence of any kind of FAS.

I really resent this idea that you are public property once pregnant. Individual advice, to specific cases, fine. Blanket bans and seeking to create a climate where we publicly shame women for perfectly acceptable behaviour - jeez! Handmaid's Tale, anyone?

I agree - tis a bit handmaid's tale.

It is only a recommendation or a guideline. Personally I think the message prior to thier statement surrounding the safety of alcohol in pregnancy could be confusing. For those of you who criticise their clear message, no doubt you know better and will just carry on drinking, how much is up to you.

I also read somewhere recently that since we now do most of our drinking at home, noone really knows what a "measure" of alcohol is any more. They asked 100 people to select a glass from a display of several and to pour themselves a "unit" of wine. The average glass poured was 2.4 units of alcohol. Can you really blame the government for trying to neaten the advice?
Do you all honestly pour seven glasses from a standard bottle of wine?

I think the problem with advice such as this, which is not backed up with research, is that it dilutes other, good, advice such as not smoking while pg.

I gave up achohol as soon I found out I was pregnant, I was pregnant on my birthday, xmas and new year but it was my choice not to touch a drop as my life doesnt NEED achohol so why take the risk??? IMO

I gave up drinking altogether in both my pregnancies (though I did consume a bottle and half of red wine in one night before I realised I was pregnant with DS!)

It was a personal choice for me, and I wouldn't condemn anyone who had one or two glasses of wine a week during pregnancy. It is the women who binge drink , or drink a few glasses per night that really wind me up.

Once again the govt are spouting a pile of poo.

I agree that it is such mysogonist (sp?) crap that a pg woman should be told no alchol. This WILL filter down into the population and it WILL mean that we become like the US where a pg woman connot toast the bride at a wedding (expats experience) We will see waiters/barstaff refusing to serve pg women, and people tutting if they see a pg woman having a drink.

I remeber being pg 6 years ago and being LIVID over the pg police. I went out for a meal at about 5 - 6 months gone, I wanted ONE glass of red wine and a goasts cheese salad. This was a business lunch, and another person at the table felt the need to ask for me if the goats cheese was pasturised and to un order my wine!! FFS I am a grown up. In teh same pg I didn't get offered seats in the tube ot train and was told at work that a 2nd child would harm my career/ At the time I worked for the LEADING BABY MAGAZINE in the country. The same magazine that when I came back from mat leave made my life hell and nearly forced me to sue for sex discrimination!!

So my point is, this 'advice' is yet another stick to bash women with, the only ones who will listen are the ones that were drinking very little in the first place. The money being spent on this campaign (and there will be money being spent) could be put to better and direct use targeting those poeple that REALLY need help.

I mean who trys to do the 5 a day??? The same ones who don't drink in PG.

Remember those women shoving McD's and fish and chips through the school gates at their children, they are the ones who are currently drinking cans of stella, do you think they will stop drinking!! FFS no way.

Houston is the fourth largest city in the US, known for its excellent and comprehensive medical center as well as for NASA and oil. Patients come to the Texas Medical Center in Houston from all over the world for various severe health problems. It is truly a technologically cutting-edge, up-to-the-moment, world-class facility with some of the best health professionals in the country. And when we were living in Houston, that is where my OB/GYN was for DS1.

My OB/GYN agreed wholeheartedly with Madamez.

Please keep in mind that the legal implications for any doctor in the US if a patient is "given an inch" and "takes a mile" in the alcohol department from lack of any doctor's advice to "totally abstain" would be severe.

Doctors' legal insurance is already half their salaries, since everyone is so sue-happy in this country.
OBs have to be especially careful.
That was my doctor's take (at St. Luke's at Texas Medical Center in 2003) on why "total abstinence" from alcohol is maintained as the standard in the US.

I was told that at a recent convention for obstetricians, one of the OBs who happened to be pg drank a glass of wine with dinner every. single. night.

If you need no alcohol in your life, then great. Feel happy about it.
But if you feel whiplashed and frustrated b/c you can't have a drink during pg, then you might want to re-think this all-or-nothing philosophy, especially since, as prev. mentioned on this thread - and my OB also mentioned it to me - there is no proof that small amounts of alcohol do any damage whatsoever. *
I think, from my experience, that pg is difficult enough: Weight gain. Water gain. Aching back. Sleep problems. Sore feet. Pain from getting kicked in the ribs every single day. If any one group of society needs an occasional drink, it's pg women. At least, it was this pg woman. And no, my two boys aren't impaired; 3-yr -old's using words like "actually" and "devastating" ... "risk the probability of ..."

... and he's extremely laid-back.